Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?
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tl-dr: I confess to feeling a bit crotchety at present. The thin skinned and easily offended may want to bail now.
@volanar Thanks for the link. It further confirms just how fsck'd up Discourse is. Here is what I view when I click on your URL immediately up post:
Now is not that special? (Yeah, I mayhaps shoulda, woulda, coulda cropped that but thought I let y'all regale in the hipness of all that glorious white space.) Were I to take a screenshot of uMatrix detailed breakdown we'd see 116 calls to various media, css, scripts, etc. hosted on Cloudflare. Hell, I guess in interest of full disclosure I need to break it down, lest the forest become lost for the trees:
- Scripts: 57
- CSS: 43
- Images: 2
Yippie skippie! You're really rockin' Cloudflare!
Mayhaps this just may be related to why Discourse is slowest of the slow, as evidenced a bit up post
@onur-baran said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
Google Pagespeed Scores:
And as for this query:
@volanar said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
@omega and how do you explain this?
https://trends.builtwith.com/cms/DiscourseI don't. Rather I chalk it up to a bunch of dumb as a post lamer's lacking the capacity for critical analysis that have been "getting by" all their lives via group think, following the herd and going w/whatever is hip on CIO this month. An unfortunate testament to just how lazy we've become. Oh, poor you! You don't have a one click install!! Cry me a river!
Well, snowflakes, thank that gods that you do NOT have to actually compile AND configure all your myriad sordid dependencies from source as prerequisite for even dreaming about running on your platform. Yeah, there was a day when Linux really did suck in this regard. But I digress w/the venting. Let's get back to some cold facts, Jack:
That last is really a gas! How many low traffic sites do you know that use cloudflare? Why do they use it? More oft than not it has not one thing to do with technical merit/analysis and everything to do with following the herd. It has been said that perception is nine tenths of reality. At least until reality rears its ugly head.
Note: I did my research on Cloudflare many years back and hence never bothered employing it for any of my personal hole in the wall projects. Shout out to @omega for the more updated links shared during recent private discussions.
Rock on NodeBB!
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@julian https://www.saashub.com/compare-discourse-vs-nodebb What do you think about this?
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Just arrived.
Trying to decide between Flarem and NodeBB, and finding this thread that is laced with such off-topic ranting of, "Is Rails still relevant", or, "Should people use Slack instead of forum software?" Just crap. Addresses none of y questions comparing Discourse and NodeBB. Y'know, I'm not even gonna go there. The thread is about the comparison between two fora platforms and even though it's based at one of the homes it's not able to stay on topic!
Well. I understand passion, and I certainly don't let crap like this sway me one way or the other in making a decision, but Geez people! It would be nice to have used this forum as a measure of helping me to make the determination I'm after lolz....
So, I know I don't want discord anymore, they won't even support manual build/installs, so they can take a hike (Like they're support was worth anything anyway).
But yah, I"m looking into the advantages between Flarem and NodeBB at this time.
Um.......
Why would anyone run that Slack crap anyway? At least use MatterMost if you're not going to go full Matrix. Geez! lolz.
Best wishes everybody. I'm sure I'll need support in the future here
.
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@volanar Yes that's one reason Discord is definitely not being considered.
Okay, if you're bringing in $150K/mo on hosting subscriptions then why are you looking for seed investors?
All that ever tells me when I see it is that they cannot live within their means, and/or they see the twilight coming and want cash for a parachute.
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@tallship Yes, threads will wander. Part of the beauty of community. You learn to filter. One way or another. As for flarum vs nodebb, honestly it has been so long ago now that I compared them that I have no memory at all...
Be all that as it may, a couple of things:
- The thread, overall, is information rich.
- Technical analysis aside, there is a "real" community here at "community". Feels like "ROSS" (Real Open Source Software) to me, Vern! Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Have a groovy day, eh?
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Even though I'm new to NodeBB and I even never used Discourse (except a demo), I want to share my opinion on this question.
First, let me do a quick introduction : I'm running a relatively small forum (3500 members) in Belgium since about 12 years. In that time we moved the forum respectively from yourbb.be to phpBB, MyBB, SMF and finally Woltlab (paying).
At several moments, we also looked at both Discourse and NodeBB but you both lack a simple install procedure for a shared hosting provider (in my case vimexx.be). In fact, there's no way to install your application there at all! And it's a real pity that it's not the case because NodeBB is a very good forum platform. Defenitely better than phpBB, MyBB and SMF and certainly cheaper than Woltlab. I just managed to install NodeBB on my linux desktop and have been playing for the last few days with it and so far these are the pro's and con's I see :pro:
- The acp is very good and clear to use. As administrator, I can very easily find all the bells & whistles available.
- Installing plugins is actually very easy and can be done directly from the acp without having to down/upload data packages via ftp
- I like the endless scrolling and the overall layout of the forum itself is great. You also have quite a lot of possibilities as a user to decide what and how you get informed on activity.
- The email digest feature is something that doesn't exist on Woltlab unless you buy an additional package.
- In fact, even though you have less plugins to choose from, most of them are free. That there are plugins that are no longer supported don't bother me that much, the same is the case for Woltlab.
Con's :
- Default markdown or bbcode : this is to my opinion a bit outdated. But it's not that big a deal because I found a (free) plugin to enable HTML formatting. Don't underestimate this feature because the average forum user is not an IT expert but an average Joe who just wants to talk about a topic (in my case homebrewing).
- There's no automatic resizing of images. In Woltlab, I can copy/paste an image directly into a post and it will be resized to a format I setup in the ACP. This option boosts the usage of images when asking questions or replying to them. A picture is worth more than a thousand words
- As said, the installation process is very complicated and even impossible on shared hosting. News flash : a lot of us forum owners are on a shared hosting
However, I am enjoying the discovery of NodeBB and I'm sure that I'll find a solution for most of my problems. Great work
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@herruu said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
At several moments, we also looked at both Discourse and NodeBB but you both lack a simple install procedure for a shared hosting provider (in my case vimexx.be). In fact, there's no way to install your application there at all! And it's a real pity that it's not the case because NodeBB is a very good forum platform.
You have to understand that the reason you had an issue is because you chose a PHP host, not a NodeJS host. There is zero issue running on shared hosting and no documentation needed to do so. The issue is that you specifically tested with a host that is only focused on different platforms than what this one runs on. Vimexx is not a generic "host any app" system, it's very specifically a PHP host only. Nothing wrong with that, that's very common for basic web applications (specifically WordPress), but no hosting like that is generic and even many PHP apps cannot be hosted there (I know, I run a PHP host like them and there's no way around those limitations.)
If you used NodeJS shared hosting, you'd have no issues. Same would happen if you tried to install a Java, .NET, Windows, Python, Perl or other application there. Your shared hosting has to be chosen based on matching the application environment of the software that you want to run.
Much of what you like about these advanced platforms comes from their use of NodeJS over PHP. So this isn't some background noise or weird choice, it's literally the core of the issue.
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@herruu said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
As said, the installation process is very complicated and even impossible on shared hosting. News flash : a lot of us forum owners are on a shared hosting
It's not really complicated and 100% works on shared hosting. I've run it on shared hosting for years. It's no different than if you were trying to install a MacOS application on your Linux desktop... it's not compatible. The fault isn't that of the operating system, nor of the application, but having chosen the wrong operating system for the application that you want to run.
The right shared host has zero issue installing nodeBB (or Discourse.)
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@herruu said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
As said, the installation process is very complicated
Here are install instructions that demonstrate how crazy simple an install is, even on a dedicated server. Would be far easier on shared.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/22011/deploying-nodebb-1-14-on-centos-8-with-mongodb-4-2
And most of the instructions there aren't about NodeBB, they are about doing basic server updates, installing the operating platform, acquiring and installing the database server, etc.
Only a couple lines of all of that is getting and installing NodeBB. For just NodeBB on shared, you can easily install with a single command. It literally can't be made easier. I've deployed a lot of these, we do one command installs regularly.
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@scottalanmiller Thanks for your reply
, so to use it in production, I'll need to move to a different provider. For now I'm just testing it on a desktop at home but I'm liking it a lot so changing providers is not impossible (my current contract ends somewhere beginning of next year).
I'm looking into how I can copy the databases from woltlab (php) to nodebb. Bit of a winter project when the weather is bad -
@herruu said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
I'm looking into how I can copy the databases from woltlab (php) to nodebb. Bit of a winter project when the weather is bad
You can't. Not realistically. So the issue is that whatever WoltLab is using, and I'll just guess that it is MySQL / MariaDB is going to be relational data and MongoDB is document data. They are two wholly different types of data storage.
So copying, no, it can't be done. It's fundamentally impossible.
That said, to do this you'd need to learn the database format of the old system, and the database format of the new system, and write your own conversion software that reads the relational data and transforms it into documents and inserts into MongoDB. It "can" be done, but it's all custom coding and quite a bit of work to know both systems under the hood so well.
This is a lot of the power of NodeBB, using a screaming fast ultra-modern document database back end. But moving data from a relational system will be painful.
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Nodebb-plugin-import can help
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@herruu said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
so to use it in production, I'll need to move to a different provider.
Yes, but avoid shared hosting unless it is a dedicated NodeBB provider. This is not WordPress and you'll be handling a lot more traffic, a lot faster and more dynamically. You need control of your database, of your NodeJS versions, and so forth. Shared will be too costly and without any benefit. Literally, no benefit.
Building a CentOS or similar (Alma, Rocky) Linux system on someone like Vultr, Linode, or DigitalOcean will give you non-shared power and flexibility for likely LESS money than shared hosting. Shared hosting is rarely a good idea. It's good for really low power, low need websites which is why it is often done free for that market. Once you are hosting a production system, you'll want more power and that doesn't mean more money or effort.
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@pitaj said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
Nodebb-plugin-import can help
What formats does it support?
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@herruu said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
For now I'm just testing it on a desktop at home but I'm liking it a lot so changing providers is not impossible (my current contract ends somewhere beginning of next year).
You can get into Vultr to host it for around $6/mo. So unless you are ultra poor, you probably don't need to be spending a lot. Your forum sounds pretty busy, so that might not be enough.
I run MangoLassi and we can bounce off around 200,000,000 views a month and we run off of Vultr High Frequency 4GB plan at $24 USD / mo and the site is screaming fast even under the heaviest load. So while $24 is not nothing and I totally get why no one wants to waste money, it's also not an amount that you generally worry about contracts to avoid. You should not spend more than $24/mo, you won't see any benefits. You could easily spend less.
We also use CloudFlare to aid in performance. We are a global site and need the caching. Been in production on NodeBB since March, 2014 when it was still an alpha release.
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@herruu if during your project you get the feeling that things are hard or not working as simply as they should, just post on here or on MangoLassi. Loads of Linux / Mongo / NodeJS / NodeBB expertise and people will jump in to help you. Getting up and running should take you no more than 30 minutes. Even if you run into problems, someone will get you sorted super fast.
Transferring your old data might be painful. Might be easy. It depends on that plugin. We were lucky that we started from scratch and never had to bring data in from somewhere else. That's the part that will cause some time delays.
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@scottalanmiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
@pitaj said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
Nodebb-plugin-import can help
What formats does it support?
Lots! https://www.npmjs.com/search?q=nodebb-import-*
Although not sure if Woltlab BB is supported as one of the exporters... might be you need to contact us to build it out, unless you know how to do it yourself
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You go Mr. Miller!
So long away, and then, poof! A deluge of cuttin' to the chase wisdom. Salute!
How's Nicaragua, eh? A little bird told me you were groovin' on it.
Have mercy!
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@gotwf said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
You go Mr. Miller!
So long away, and then, poof! A deluge of cuttin' to the chase wisdom. Salute!
How's Nicaragua, eh? A little bird told me you were groovin' on it.
Thanks, good to be "back", been such a busy summer with the move. Life is great in Nicaragua! When are you visiting?
