Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?
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@Joykiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
@scottalanmiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
I do wish that a few more things in NodeBB were built in rather than plugins. Not a lot, just a few.
Yep like API access to everything. IMO that's huge for customization for various things. (I'm bias because i need all the api's i can get my hands on.)
Agreed, that is totally needed and should definitely not be a plugin. That and a TON of more reporting.
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@scottalanmiller Yeah, im in the middle of writing a system that would love to utilize the API, but the write API and having to manually update other plugins for their routes and all that, along with trying to figure out peoples coding stack is too much. So I'm prob just going to end up writing/searching the mongodb instead. But API would be awesome.
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@Joykiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
@scottalanmiller Yeah, im in the middle of writing a system that would love to utilize the API, but the write API and having to manually update other plugins for their routes and all that, along with trying to figure out peoples coding stack is too much. So I'm prob just going to end up writing/searching the mongodb instead. But API would be awesome.
Yeah, that's a bit of a problem.
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Hm... I made the conscious decision to develop the Write API separately mostly because it's not a feature that many people use. Those admins who want deeper integration would, certainly, but I think at the time, I wasn't entirely sure how much it'd bulk up the codebase were I to build it into core itself.
That said, I try to keep on top of it in terms of compatibility... and the Write API's RESTful interface is much more organized than NodeBB's read API, simply because it was designed that way, instead of organically grown. Was there anything specific you wanted me to address in the Write API?
With regards to documentation, I realize we really need some sort of auto-generated doc tool to show API responses. Having to "code it first and see what the responses are" should not be the way to develop...
So many things on our backlog
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@julian said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
Hm... I made the conscious decision to develop the Write API separately mostly because it's not a feature that many people use. Those admins who want deeper integration would, certainly, but I think at the time, I wasn't entirely sure how much it'd bulk up the codebase were I to build it into core itself.
That said, I try to keep on top of it in terms of compatibility... and the Write API's RESTful interface is much more organized than NodeBB's read API, simply because it was designed that way, instead of organically grown. Was there anything specific you wanted me to address in the Write API?
With regards to documentation, I realize we really need some sort of auto-generated doc tool to show API responses. Having to "code it first and see what the responses are" should not be the way to develop...
So many things on our backlog
I'm sure we all understand the effort you guys put in everyday. Just do what you can, I've noticed many "newer" more modern forums such as Discourse for example utilize some type of built in API system for integrations. Basically would love to see an API for read/write built into the core.
Pre-context: I been a user of Nodebb for a while, I waited like 2 years and came back still not much in terms of average user QOL changes. Not saying you guys havnt done anything im sure theres lots of core fixes and so forth let me explain in more detail below.
A bunch of small QOL changes would be nice to see as well, at least from the small time that I've started back into Nodebb development for a project i'm working on. I've had to custom build some plugins just to modify things that should be also written into the core system. It's kind of out of reach for your average person cant expect them to write plugins to fix specific things like these.
Example: GDPR modifying the text would require a plugin to modify the lang output. Would be nice where in the settings section where you can enable / disable to modify that with a modal popup etc. I'm sure theres others but this is only from what ive came across.
But I love nodebb. AS in terms of this thread "Which is better?"
I look at it from another point of view..
NodeBB is more of a developer board and Discourse is popular and has more developers for consumer usage. Nodebb just isn't user friendly enough for changes for users just my 2cents. -
@Joykiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
I look at it from another point of view..
NodeBB is more of a developer board and Discourse is popular and has more developers for consumer usage. Nodebb just isn't user friendly enough for changes for users just my 2cents.Yes, that is the sad reality of it, is that we're not as large as Discourse nor do we have as much money, but I still feel we've come up with a competitive product that holds a candle to it.
The unfortunate part is that that last 10% to even out the rough edges requires money, or developers, and often both, and while we're around, many thing pull at us in many different directions
Seems to be an issue with many open source products in general...
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@julian said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
@Joykiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
I look at it from another point of view..
NodeBB is more of a developer board and Discourse is popular and has more developers for consumer usage. Nodebb just isn't user friendly enough for changes for users just my 2cents.Yes, that is the sad reality of it, is that we're not as large as Discourse nor do we have as much money, but I still feel we've come up with a competitive product that holds a candle to it.
The unfortunate part is that that last 10% to even out the rough edges requires money, or developers, and often both, and while we're around, many thing pull at us in many different directions
Seems to be an issue with many open source products in general...
Yep, Nodebb is great problem with it getting more people to use it is tied directly with the type of plugins/features available to users. Have you got statistics data on the type of person who uses this board of is it varied? I my self use mostly for gaming communities. So things like Discord/Steam integrations are hugely popular things. - Just a thought of focusing on the groups and making some popular plugins for attracting those users may help. I personally hate Discourse due to their docker wrapper. but thats me.
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@Joykiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
I personally hate Discourse due to their docker wrapper. but thats me.
Oh gosh, that would pretty much turn me away right there. Docker is great for devs, but makes little sense for production operations. Tends to come from shops that are run by devs and have little operational knowledge or experience. We just had a discussion about that last week in our forum: https://mangolassi.it/topic/19577/docker-for-production-use-of-third-party-software/
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@Joykiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
I my self use mostly for gaming communities.
We use it for professional communities, mostly. Peer to peer career development, peer review, etc. Two of my big ones are in IT and insurance fields.
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@scottalanmiller hah actually we're a dev run shop, but we lean heavily the other direction with software that tries to be as platform agnostic as possible.
It leads to situations where we cannot provide support to all users (after all, I've personally never installed NodeBB on Windows or SunOS), but it forces us to develop in a manner that focuses more on compliance and reliance on well tested technologies.
When it comes to our installation steps, I feel we've come a ways with our installation wizard and command line setup, but there are always improvements to be made. One thing I'm personally excited about is our one click image on Digital Ocean. We're happy to work with them to provide anyone with the means to start a NodeBB of their own
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@zaasmi said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
With vastly more people becoming aware of privacy concerns, ever more increasing numbers of people transitioning to VPN's, along with the plethora of free VPN providers coming online nowadays, one take any such stats with a large dose of salt, eh?
One reason I put little to no stock in "analytics". These days.
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@gotwf for sure. Even without VPNs and stuff. I know that when I lived in NYC I was constantly getting detected as being in Germany. Now from Texas, everything thinks that I am in Toronto!
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When it comes to our installation steps, I feel we've come a ways with our installation wizard and command line setup, but there are always improvements to be made. One thing I'm personally excited about is our one click image on Digital Ocean. We're happy to work with them to provide anyone with the means to start a NodeBB of their own
I was looking earlier to see if there was one in the DO marketplace but I can’t see it.
Is it in the pipeline?
Though I see a support notice so maybe a bug on DO’s end hiding it from view!
A one click would be useful alright.
I’ve made base installs and the snapshot the base, to speed up other nodeBB creations and handy for when plugins fail too i.e. testing.
Thinking are here any good images sources out there? Where might I look?
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We built our DO image on Ubuntu 18.04 with some sane configs and such. There are areas to improve so hopefully as more people use the one-click image, then we'll find out pain points and address.
That said, the image isn't live yet. It's still being verified by the DO crew
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@scottalanmiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
@Joykiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
I personally hate Discourse due to their docker wrapper. but thats me.
Oh gosh, that would pretty much turn me away right there. Docker is great for devs, but makes little sense for production operations. Tends to come from shops that are run by devs and have little operational knowledge or experience. We just had a discussion about that last week in our forum: https://mangolassi.it/topic/19577/docker-for-production-use-of-third-party-software/
Docker is for lamers who don't know how to be system admins
And, of course, rapid development. When Docker first started making it's appearance I embraced it but was later aghast when folks started routinely deploying to production, and predicted to some buddies that some security nightmares were just around the corner... And they were.
But enough Docker bashing. I looked at Discourse long, long ago, in a far away galaxy (well, in Internet time, anyways). Ruled it out right away for following (admittedly highly opinionated) reasons:
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Docker centric: Now that I am primarily only on my own projects, I am free to abandon Linux in favor of what I consider to be superior OS's like FreeBSD and SmartOS. Nothing personal but platform lockin equates to vendor lockin. And that just ain't freedom enough for me
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Rails vs. NodeJS: Are you kidding? Was an early adopter of Rails back, circa 2003/4 or so? It rocked at that time as an alternative to then php stuff sporting the serious security hole of the day/week. Or so it seemed - php was pretty sketchy for a while there. Fast forward a decade and a half and it's freakin' no contest! Rails is all but history/legacy, at least in my mind.
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Main Dev Heads: Cool vs kind arrogant asshats (sounds like that may have changed). This was immediately off putting and I was kind of surprised Discourse became so popular, but I guess that's one thing fame will help you with.
So... note to the NodeBB devs:
Please do keep doing what YOU do best and do not worry too much about feature parity w/what, in my view, is an inferior, non starter platform just because they've got a few extra bells, whistles, and/or mindshare. Popularity more oft than not does NOT equal technical superiority but rather merely demonstrates whos' the better con men. Err.. marketing team....
Now obviously I do not mean to preclude a bit of cross pollination when it makes sense. But I have been around long enough to observe FOSS project loose their vision in the quest for "Feature Parity" with some perceived competition. So, just weighing in w/my $0.02 to encourage you to stay true to your vision. Cuz it's been workin' pretty good fer' me ;D
And finally, in closing, the astute may have noticed I enjoy making tongue in cheek comments from time to time for the humor value. Don't get yer' beak too tweaked, eh? It's not a religion for me.
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@omega said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
A one click would be useful alright.
Would only take a minute to turn this into a one click install
Deploying NodeBB 1.11.1 on CentOS 7 with MongoDB 4
NodeBB is a powerful, open source package for building online communities and forums. We usually recommend running it on CentOS 7. The current NodeBB relea...
MangoLassi (mangolassi.it)
We can deploy on CentOS 7 in a minute or two. We do it repeatedly for testing. Just go right through the list and done.
(Notice you need to update 1.11.x to 1.12.x).
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@gotwf said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
- Rails vs. NodeJS: Are you kidding?
Jeff has a lot of ties to Joel Spolsky who owns the only software company we ever asked for our money back from. This goes way back. But we tried out FogBugz long ago, bought a license and everything. And found that not only did it not support any production OS to deploy on top of, it was all written in VBS. Not even VB.NET, but VBS. Total embarrassment, I can't believe that they released it. We refused to even deploy it as not being production ready and not thought through. They had never considered that it might get used in a business.
Rails isn't VBS bad, I like it and it has its place. But there is an ecosystem of being behind the times, and not thinking through how the technology is going to play out once you actually want to deploy.
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@scottalanmiller said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
But there is an ecosystem of being behind the times, and not thinking through how the technology is going to play out once you actually want to deploy.
Indubitably. Hitting the nail square on the head here.
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@gotwf said in Which is better NodeBB or Discourse?:
I was kind of surprised Discourse became so popular, but I guess that's one thing fame will help you with.
I used to read Jeff Atwood's blog, I really liked it back then, and he said a lot of things I agreed (and still do, sometimes) with. He has a huge following and that's what allows him to speak his mind and be heavily opinionated, because lots of people will listen and change their minds. That same audience lends Discourse a whole heap of validity simply because of the name recognition factor, and all the power to them, really! I wish I had that kind of marketing clout, but here at NodeBB, we need to focus on building a superior product instead
We don't really want to have a say in whether one product is better than another. We've stolen good ideas from Discourse and Flarum, and vice versa. It all makes for a better product anyway, doesn't it?
FWIW if I tried to be as opinionated as Mr. Atwood, I'd get flamed incessantly. My average reputation on my HackerNews posts is... 1
