Need freelancer with Nodebb experience
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Nice site, tnx for share.
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@kinderjaje A personal favourite of mine
After sending two invoices for payment, I sent another and called the client when the receipt that they had received came back.
Client: Why are you calling me?
Me: You haven’t paid and this is the third invoice I’ve sent.
Client: It’s even more than the last one!
Me: Yes. The contract you signed stated that I would add a late fee for payment.
Client: You mean I have to actually pay you? I thought you were joking!
Me: What on earth made you think that?
Client: You’re a freelancer!
Me: And…
Client: Well, you work for free! If you were supposed to be paid, you’d be called a paidlancer or something! -
@kinderjaje said:
@a_5mith "we charge $95 USD per hour" that is a quote from Julian, so freelancer i look cant cost that bro. With due respect for everyone works on nodebb and their own values, but for me that is sick price.
That's actually crazy low and I would recommend to the NodeBB guys that they reconsider working for anything so low. They are a unique resource and can do custom work at a rate and efficiency that no one else can touch. No one. I totally understand that you can't afford them, that's not cheap to a home user. But this is Node.js development we are talking about. At $95/hour these guys are literally doing work as a favor.
I work for a consulting firm and if you wanted us to look at this we'd be 50%-100% higher and we don't have the kinds of Node.js and certainly not the NodeBB skills that they have. That's just basic market price. Anyone capable of doing this work is going to be very expensive. Even if you live in a low cost area, Node.js skills are universal so people doing that work there can get paid to work in NYC, London or Toronto remotely or relocated to where the work is.
You can find cheaper people out there, sure. But you can't find better ROI or TCO, I guarantee it.
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@kinderjaje said:
I dont know how much u guys earning but 95$/h lets say u work 8h per day its its 760$ daily/22k a month. I think google emplyers and in some really really big companies have that salary.
You don't understand how employment / consulting works. Google is actually not a high end paying firm, by the way. They are upper mid level. Keep in mind, salaried people making $300K USB (a reasonable amount of money for what these guys do) also have taxes of another $60K or so, plus insurance and all kinds of expenses. The total cost for a developer at this skill level is closer to $400K / year. And that's for someone that you guarantee to pay full time, around the clock, every day without fail.
A contractor rate is inclusive of all of that. They have to not only cover all of those costs themselves out of that money but they have to pay for payroll, accounts receivable, their secretary and other support staff. The rule of thumb is that the contractor should see roughly 1/3rd of the money that they change. And then you have to consider that they are not getting paid every day of every month. It's a one time deal, probably for just a few days. So they have lots of time without making any money. They would need a staff of sales people and account managers, all of whom cost a lot of money, working full time finding them work to keep themselves busy to come anywhere close to getting to work "full time."
So as you can see $95/hr is insanely low. It's lower than Best Buy charges to install a hard drive! It's low because they are doing this out of passion and are only asking for enough money to keep the lights on and are doing the work as a favor by and large.
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@a_5mith said:
@kinderjaje A personal favourite of mine
After sending two invoices for payment, I sent another and called the client when the receipt that they had received came back.
Client: Why are you calling me?
Me: You haven’t paid and this is the third invoice I’ve sent.
Client: It’s even more than the last one!
Me: Yes. The contract you signed stated that I would add a late fee for payment.
Client: You mean I have to actually pay you? I thought you were joking!
Me: What on earth made you think that?
Client: You’re a freelancer!
Me: And…
Client: Well, you work for free! If you were supposed to be paid, you’d be called a paidlancer or something!I've gotten "you posted a comment on a public technical forum that does not charge for people to ask questions, therefore you have no right to be paid, ever."
Um, what? It was a site like this one. A company in Toronto actually told me directly that anyone who posts anything online has no right to receive payment for work, even when under negotiated contract.
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@scottalanmiller
Doesn't fare well for users with GitHub accounts then. "You post code there for free, I'll take some too!!!" -
@a_5mith said:
Didn't understand your point about they way, how 40$/h can cost same as 95$/h. Only thing it came to my mind is time delivery, which play role in my situation, but i would rather wait instead to get charged double.
Time delivery is exactly my point. It could take a member of NodeBB 2 hours to do the work you requested. Yet it could take someone else 5 or 6 hours to do the same thing. Have a read through this website and you will see exactly what freelancers go through every day.
And quality. At $40/hr you are going to have a high schooler writing your plugins (no offense to any high schoolers in the community) and not programming professionals. Who knows what security holes or functionality gaps or other problems will likely arise if they even manage to finish the project.
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I would honestly recommend, as a long time professional consultant, that the NodeBB team raise their rates. Check out SpiceWorks (the largest online IT community) and search on people asking about how to set rates. Consistently people talk about the necessary ratios for survival and what it takes to make the time worth the money. Lots of shops moving from <$100/hr to ~$150/hr actually see an increase in work, not a decrease, because below $100 people wonder what's wrong that you can work so cheaply.
Or post on MangoLassi, a NodeBB IT site, and ask. NTG's Managing Director is on there daily and will provide a lot of insight into price structuring for consulting and how to determine rates. She is based not that far from the NodeBB guys (but on the US side) and is used to running a consulting firm that works internationally.
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@scottalanmiller I've always wanted to get into consultancy or project management. Seems like a really exciting area to be involved in. Keep finding myself stuck in development though.
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@scottalanmiller I understand how its workts just didnt want to go in details it was just rough example . I mean, that was not even the point.
Still like i said i dont need kind of "schooled pro" who charge like he work in google. There are lot of young people who are willing to work for reasonable amount of money and in same time to do what he like and learn more stuff.
If i ever have company, it would not be problem to hire expensive i can say "pro" developer, but right now it's kind of strugling with what i can afford.
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's low because they are doing this out of passion and are only asking for enough money to keep the lights on and are doing the work as a favor by and large.
heh. I work with lights off
EDIT: but yes, somebody has to pay for my coffees and booze
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@kinderjaje said:
There are lot of young people who are willing to work for reasonable amount of money and in same time to do what he like and learn more stuff.
Due to differentiations in the economy between the east and west, what you call reasonable, and what I call reasonable, will differ massively. Take psychobunny up on his offer, let him know what you need and ask for a timeframe to completion, if it's an hour or 3, it will come in under budget, and be a solid product.
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@a_5mith said:
Due to differentiations in the economy between the east and west, what you call reasonable, and what I call reasonable, will differ massively.
This is so true cost of living varies greatly between countries. Toronto so expensive
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@kinderjaje said:
Still like i said i dont need kind of "schooled pro" who charge like he work in google. There are lot of young people who are willing to work for reasonable amount of money and in same time to do what he like and learn more stuff.
If i ever have company, it would not be problem to hire expensive i can say "pro" developer, but right now it's kind of strugling with what i can afford.Yeah, what's a "reasonable" price to you? Throw me a valuation of what you think this project is worth and at what price are you willing to pay. I'm curious...
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trevor Plugin & Theme Dev Anime Lovers GNU/Linuxreplied to scottalanmiller on last edited by trevor
These guys charge so little yet their work is pretty damn good quality with outstanding results and not to mention they do meet deadlines. Sorry to put you out here, but @baris did some work for me recently, it wasn't much but still, its the fact that he charged me standard rate, it took ~1 hour, it was quality work, not the type of work you get from offshore firms (and you know what I mean by offshore so I shouldn't have to explain that in detail), with excellent communication, delivered with updates (shows he cares about his client as the whole team does) and I am happy with the results.
So I'll say this to you @kinderjaje, find me someone who will charge under 95$ an hour with quality work, bug fixes (updates), excellent communication, and delivered in mission critical times. It seems to me like you want something cheaply thrown together with duct tape and paper clips. Obviously money is the issue and if you don't have it and are serious about starting your own business, find a way to get the funds for it - whether it be a kickstarter, donations, sponsors, etc.
All in all, you pay for what you get. I feel that you think you're being ripped off as well just because of what you typed and how you typed it. Well I'll say you're not by far.
Good luck on finding that special dev.
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@a_5mith said:
@scottalanmiller I've always wanted to get into consultancy or project management. Seems like a really exciting area to be involved in. Keep finding myself stuck in development though.
I've spent the bulk of my career consulting. There is a lot of upside to it. Very exciting, career moves fast. I like the lifestyle.
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@scottalanmiller -Would be interested to hear how you got started and how you gain new clients some time. I'm tempted to give it a go.
I've spent long enough as a developer to know what's good and what's not. Who to work with an who not to etc, -
@scottalanmiller Thanks for your thoughts (17 days ago!
oops) on the subject of our pricing. As some have surmised, we're charging the rate we charge because we love what we do, though we could charge more because we're three of a very small set of users who can easily work with the NodeBB code 
We also want to encourage more stuff, whether it be plugins, themes, or updates to the core, and so that's why we're encouraging all of our clients to open source plugins that they sponsor development for
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@a_5mith said:
@scottalanmiller -Would be interested to hear how you got started and how you gain new clients some time. I'm tempted to give it a go.
I've spent long enough as a developer to know what's good and what's not. Who to work with an who not to etc,I really just sort of fell into it long ago. Ended up doing some consulting engagements to pay some bills and ended up liking the constant change. Ended up with an internal IT department that split away from its parent to become a consulting firm - first in software then in IT. Started in the US and have offices in the UK now too. Now I've been doing it for so long, it is hard to imagine much else
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I would not recommend working with this person, he'll just decide that he doesn't need what you're working on anymore. While already working at a very, very low rate, even refuses to pay out a single penny for the work you've already put in it. Do not accept any work from him.
