Honestly, if you’re in the US, please vote.

Amoshias

@benroyce @gwm @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron you are still arguing with this troll

The idea that Jill Stein is anti-genocide is insane. She has a running mate who is in favor of the genocide of israelis. In order to be against genocide, you have to be against all genocide, not just in favor of trading one particular genocide for another.

She's not anti-genocide, she's just anti-israeli. That's not the same thing.

George Maschke

@barney I don't see how my opinions on these matters has anything to do with "white privilege."

George Maschke

@Amoshias @benroyce @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron On what basis do you believe that Jill Stein's running mate, Butch Ware, supports the genocide of Israelis?

Mastodon Migration VOTED

@gwm @barney

It seems like they mean you have the luxury of standing on your high moral principles because you are not going to be the one on the receiving end, unlike the people you are professing to support. It is easier to have an intellectual relationship with a principle than with a bullet.

George Maschke

@mastodonmigration @barney I can see how one might argue that. But as I see things, whether Harris or Trump wins, the plight of the Palestinians will in all likelihood be similarly bleak.

Amoshias

@gwm @benroyce @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron his statements in favor of the genocide of Israelis

I'm weird that way

Mastodon Migration VOTED

@gwm @barney

So this then becomes the crux of the decision. You have to believe that neither candidate will make a difference to the people you are supporting. It should be clear that Netanyahu, at least, thinks very differently. Also, as shown above, Trump has told him he will be free to "do whatever he wants" whereas Harris has been telegraphing a much different message. It seems like holding to the position they are both the same is very difficult given what we know about these two people.

George Maschke

@mastodonmigration @barney On Palestine, Trump and Harris are sufficiently alike that I did not find it reasonable to cast my ballot for Harris based on the hope that she might somehow be better.

George Maschke

@Amoshias @benroyce @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron I am not aware of any statement by Butch Ware supporting the genocide of any people.

Mastodon Migration VOTED

@gwm @barney

That is, of course, up to you to decide, but it seems like a very difficult argument to sustain given the respective public positions. On the one hand Trump is saying to Netanyahu he will permit him do anything he wants. On the other Harris is saying she will do everything she can to end the war. The difference in indeed significant.

Seems like you need to believe that she lacks all sincerity to conclude they are both the same.

Amoshias

@gwm @benroyce @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron you don't seem to be aware of anything that goes against your preferred narrative.

That's unusual.

Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote

@Amoshias @gwm @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron

the account is bot-like

they pick up a gist of a comment, and reply with well known boilerplate disinfo talking points, with flat emotional effect, like reading off a list

the account simply ignores any point that renders their lies evident. even if repeated

beyond dishonesty, that points to a behavior pattern which is cold influence operation rather than genuine human being trying to engage

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@bot23 @gwm @ducksauz @WAHa_06x36 @johnstonphilip @benroyce @Mourioche
At the end of the day, there are things we can get and things we can't get. That is a problem with the two-party system, which I think we can get rid of within the next decade or so if we can just elect Kamala Harris this time. The choice is between more genocide, on top of all the other horrible things Trump and his allies are promising to do, and a path to peace, on top of all the other positive things that Harris offers.

Once again, the difference is night and day.

People cannot be sitting this election out.

George Maschke

@benroyce @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron You don't really think I'm a bot, do you? I'm posting here with my real name. You can Google me, and even call if you like (I'm gwm.11 on Signal).

Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote

@gwm @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron

you elicit a patterrn of behavior which is indicative of your motivations

i have multiply stated the value of a 3rd party vote in an fptp voting system- it divides the left and helps trump win

you just ignore it

because you're not interested in honest engagement

you're interested in shilling talking points

so you are an operator as part of an agenda not a genuine person sharing your honest views

George Maschke

@benroyce @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron No, I just happen to think you're wrong about third parties. While they may attract some voters away from the candidates of the duopoly, they also attract persons who would not otherwise vote. That someone may have a different view than you does not entail that they are arguing in bad faith, or must somehow be a foreign agent.

Beachhart

@gwm @benroyce @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron

So are you pushing for third party at the school board level? City council? State level?

There is no point to a third party president if she immediately would have to turn to one of the two parties to get literally anything done.

Third parties take work at the bottom. Top down approaches have never worked. I don't know that a single example exists of it working.

George Maschke

@Beachhart @benroyce @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron I support third party candidates in local elections as well.

Beachhart

@gwm @benroyce @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron

Good. Then if you can be pragmatic, you should be pragmatic here and vote Harris at the top of the ticket.

This is not the election to fuck around with. If Trump is elected you won't get to vote third party again. Or at all.

George Maschke

@Beachhart @benroyce @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron Trump was elected before, and he was voted out of office after four years. I think the situation is not so dire as you suggest.