Honestly, if you’re in the US, please vote.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@libramoon @gwm @ducksauz @WAHa_06x36 @johnstonphilip @benroyce @Mourioche
This needs to be tagged with #Palestine, #Gaza, #Islamophobia, and #GenocideJoe, because it is exactly what I keep saying the people in those conversations need to keep in mind.

We have a candidate, otherwise pretty good, who has this one policy position that a lot of us are finding indefensible. I don't like defending it myself, but we go to war with the army we have. I see a lot of resentment coming from the Arab and Islamic communities, but also a lot of begrudging support simply because this is not a normal election: people who throw away this chance to stop fascism in the US are going to regret it for the rest of their lives.

Under Kamala Harris, we are not likely to get the swift action that we want, but under Donald Trump? If he gets elected the Palestinians will be dead before the midterm, assuming we even get to have another midterm.

Barney

@gwm

How very white-privileged of you, George.

Palestinians don't have the luxury of pretending that there can be a "President Neither." They have to live, or die, with either Trump or Harris. And you came here to help get Harris elected. That's a goddamned fact. And you have some goddamned nerve pretending you give a shit about Palestinians.

#USPol #Gaza

Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote

@firebreathingduck

furthermore, the answer to your complaints is participation in the primaries, getting us 50 AOCs

to vote *more*, not less

if you use your words as a reason to detach, the democrats weaken, and move further to the center, thus you are helping to create the very problems you complain about

the democrats are not magical archvillains, they are an expression of who votes for them. and you are articulating the reason why *you* are to blame for why they suck if you detach

Amoshias

@benroyce @gwm @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron you are still arguing with this troll

The idea that Jill Stein is anti-genocide is insane. She has a running mate who is in favor of the genocide of israelis. In order to be against genocide, you have to be against all genocide, not just in favor of trading one particular genocide for another.

She's not anti-genocide, she's just anti-israeli. That's not the same thing.

George Maschke

@barney I don't see how my opinions on these matters has anything to do with "white privilege."

George Maschke

@Amoshias @benroyce @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron On what basis do you believe that Jill Stein's running mate, Butch Ware, supports the genocide of Israelis?

Mastodon Migration VOTED

@gwm @barney

It seems like they mean you have the luxury of standing on your high moral principles because you are not going to be the one on the receiving end, unlike the people you are professing to support. It is easier to have an intellectual relationship with a principle than with a bullet.

George Maschke

@mastodonmigration @barney I can see how one might argue that. But as I see things, whether Harris or Trump wins, the plight of the Palestinians will in all likelihood be similarly bleak.

Amoshias

@gwm @benroyce @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron his statements in favor of the genocide of Israelis

I'm weird that way

Mastodon Migration VOTED

@gwm @barney

So this then becomes the crux of the decision. You have to believe that neither candidate will make a difference to the people you are supporting. It should be clear that Netanyahu, at least, thinks very differently. Also, as shown above, Trump has told him he will be free to "do whatever he wants" whereas Harris has been telegraphing a much different message. It seems like holding to the position they are both the same is very difficult given what we know about these two people.

George Maschke

@mastodonmigration @barney On Palestine, Trump and Harris are sufficiently alike that I did not find it reasonable to cast my ballot for Harris based on the hope that she might somehow be better.

George Maschke

@Amoshias @benroyce @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron I am not aware of any statement by Butch Ware supporting the genocide of any people.

Mastodon Migration VOTED

@gwm @barney

That is, of course, up to you to decide, but it seems like a very difficult argument to sustain given the respective public positions. On the one hand Trump is saying to Netanyahu he will permit him do anything he wants. On the other Harris is saying she will do everything she can to end the war. The difference in indeed significant.

Seems like you need to believe that she lacks all sincerity to conclude they are both the same.

Amoshias

@gwm @benroyce @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron you don't seem to be aware of anything that goes against your preferred narrative.

That's unusual.

Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote

@Amoshias @gwm @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron

the account is bot-like

they pick up a gist of a comment, and reply with well known boilerplate disinfo talking points, with flat emotional effect, like reading off a list

the account simply ignores any point that renders their lies evident. even if repeated

beyond dishonesty, that points to a behavior pattern which is cold influence operation rather than genuine human being trying to engage

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@bot23 @gwm @ducksauz @WAHa_06x36 @johnstonphilip @benroyce @Mourioche
At the end of the day, there are things we can get and things we can't get. That is a problem with the two-party system, which I think we can get rid of within the next decade or so if we can just elect Kamala Harris this time. The choice is between more genocide, on top of all the other horrible things Trump and his allies are promising to do, and a path to peace, on top of all the other positive things that Harris offers.

Once again, the difference is night and day.

People cannot be sitting this election out.

George Maschke

@benroyce @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron You don't really think I'm a bot, do you? I'm posting here with my real name. You can Google me, and even call if you like (I'm gwm.11 on Signal).

Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote

@gwm @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron

you elicit a patterrn of behavior which is indicative of your motivations

i have multiply stated the value of a 3rd party vote in an fptp voting system- it divides the left and helps trump win

you just ignore it

because you're not interested in honest engagement

you're interested in shilling talking points

so you are an operator as part of an agenda not a genuine person sharing your honest views

George Maschke

@benroyce @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron No, I just happen to think you're wrong about third parties. While they may attract some voters away from the candidates of the duopoly, they also attract persons who would not otherwise vote. That someone may have a different view than you does not entail that they are arguing in bad faith, or must somehow be a foreign agent.

Beachhart

@gwm @benroyce @Amoshias @barney @firebreathingduck @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron

So are you pushing for third party at the school board level? City council? State level?

There is no point to a third party president if she immediately would have to turn to one of the two parties to get literally anything done.

Third parties take work at the bottom. Top down approaches have never worked. I don't know that a single example exists of it working.