I'm still not clear about the discussion we had yesterday.
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Erin 💽✨replied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by@evan @steve I remember AS2 as JLD being part of the WG charter, and therefore not really up for discussion. Maybe that discussion was had before the invites went out, but it felt too me a bit like a mandate from "on high" (i.e. the W3C)
I regret how the JLD interop was specified in the spec though. I think we could have done better -
Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
@steve oh, and the example you gave about XML is exactly how people worked with RSS up until version 2.0!
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Erin 💽✨ on last edited by
@erincandescent @steve James used JSON-LD in the later drafts of the AS2 RFC, so it antedated coming to W3C. But it definitely also worked as a selling point internally, at least until the SoLiD schism.
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Steve Batereplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
@evan JSON-LD is a Linked Data (RDF) serialization. I think it's a stretch to call it a schema language in the same genre as JSON Schema. The JSON-LD AP context can only be compared to a schema language in very limited ways. I'd expect one would use RDF Schema (RDFS) or SHACLE or Shape Expressions (ShEx), maybe OWL, *with* JSON-LD for that purpose. Given that, would you personally still choose JSON-LD today, since the focus is on plain JSON? I'm not asking about what Snell chose a decade ago.
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Steve Batereplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
@evan I'm not exactly clear about the analogy, but maybe someday we'll say that's how it worked in ActivityPub up until version 2.0!
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Steve Bate on last edited by
@steve early versions of RSS were based on RDF/XML. Version 2.0 is not. People parsed it as plain XML.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Steve Bate on last edited by
@steve also, you don't have to wait for some imaginary future version. If you want to change ActivityPub, make extensions. It's really easy, and if your extension gets popular, it will get merged into the main AS2 context.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Steve Bate on last edited by
@steve it's no longer up to you or me. The AS2 spec was standardized in 2018 and AP in 2019. We have hundreds of implementations, tens of thousands of servers, and tens of millions of user accounts.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
@steve there's no latitude at all to change the primary serialization format for AS2. JSON-LD meets all our needs, anyway.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by [email protected]
@steve so, I did a gist that I think represents your original point, namely, that regardless of whether the object is represented as a JSON object or an URL in the `items` property array value of an AS2 `Collection`, the triple generated to represent the relationship of containment is the same. Is that roughly it?
Converting an AS2 collection from JSON-LD to n-quads
Converting an AS2 collection from JSON-LD to n-quads - collection1a.jsonld
Gist (gist.github.com)
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by [email protected]
@steve I can definitely agree with that, although it gets more complicated with paged collections. For AS2 and AP, this also shows a single note in a collection, but the RDF is not the same.
Paged collection
Paged collection. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.
Gist (gist.github.com)
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Steve Batereplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
@evan Yes, that’s essentially it. The AS2 Collection paging is a whole other discussion. The RDF triples are accurately representing what’s in the page-related JSON-LD, but the JSON-LD isn’t literally serializing one item in a Collection. It’s serializing a Collection referencing a CollectionPage (via `first`) that references one item (which is consistent with the RDF triples).
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Steve Bate on last edited by
@steve the note is contained in the collection in all three examples. That's the abstract model. I agree, the RDF is different.
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Steve Batereplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
@evan Right, the RDF differs because the Collection's JSON-LD serialization is different in the paged serialization. I'd prefer that the Collection representation wouldn't change for paging, but I know that's another aspect of AS2 that will not change. Linked Data Platform (LDP) Paging describes a different way that doesn't couple the Collection and page representations so tightly. IIRC, they use Link headers for page refs and transient objects (in AP terms) for pages. https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp-paging.html
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Steve Bate on last edited by
@steve it's neat. I can't remember why we decided not to use LDP collections.
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naturzukunftreplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
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Evan Prodromoureplied to naturzukunft on last edited by
@naturzukunft @steve if you want one, please contact O'Reilly. We're doing ebook only at first, but they said if there's enough interest they'll do a print book. So please let them know!
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naturzukunftreplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
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naturzukunftreplied to naturzukunft on last edited by
Question:
Hi there, i would like to order the ActivityPub by Evan Prodromou ISBN: 9781098169466 as print version. Is this possible ?Answer:
Hi Fred,
Thanks for contacting us. Unfortunately, this title has been canceled and can't be ordered. Please let me know if you have any questions.Kind regards,
Paul | Senior Customer Support -
Evan Prodromoureplied to naturzukunft on last edited by
@naturzukunft @steve Wow, what a crazy response!
