I thought the Vice President responded to the protestors in Phoenix with respect.
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Lee Fife - old accountreplied to SLCWđź’Ą on last edited by
@slcw @timbray @NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews exactly right.It's easy to be irresponsible and feel good about counter productive protesting, esply if you're not going to vote in this election....
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Stybba3019replied to Lee Fife - old account on last edited by
@colo_lee @slcw @NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews
In the end, this isn't the only issue for the majority of voters. It is important to most Dem voters but may not be the most critical one. It isn't something that can be done by fiat, which the hecklers don't seem to want to accept. It takes so little to destroy what others are trying to build. Too many malign forces keep ripping away hope of peace because chaos suits them better.
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Alexander Hamizdat for Harrisreplied to Stybba3019 on last edited by
@Stybba3019 @colo_lee @slcw @NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews surveys say Gaza is the #1 issue for approximately 3% of Democratic voters.
We should call them "Three Percenters".
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Risottoreplied to Alexander Hamizdat for Harris on last edited by
@alexhammy @Stybba3019 @colo_lee @[email protected] @NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews being a # 1 issue for a small group doesn't mean it isn't a lower priority but still important optics for a lot of others
but yeah probably civil rights, the economy, democracy, rule of law at home outrank foreign affairs and genocide abroad...
biden didn't want to forgive student debt during the campaign. he flat out told a town hall question no.
however, due to constant public pressure he changed his tune in the administration.
it's /okay/ to pressure politicians to be better. billionaires won't stop pressuring them. the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
by demonstrating that the Uncommitted movement had a sizable unified voting block (in an election that could go south), Harris kinda has to consider them as a factor. (e.g., the VP pick)
does she need to be perfect? no.
is it in the bag and the campaign can rest? hell no.
are protesters who ask for human rights to be respected similar to oligarchs? absolutely fucking not.
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@slcw
I want to point out that the protestors are a chance for Harris to show what she's going to do, and if it is different from what Biden has been doing. If she's going to prevent genocide, this is a good time to talk about it.Palestinians face an existential crisis. Telling protestors to shut up about it doesn't seem like the right way to win them over.
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Ralph058 (S/he/it) 4 Harrisreplied to Jon Quass on last edited by
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Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:replied to Ralph058 (S/he/it) 4 Harris on last edited by
@Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS
Yeah, regardless of what sort of immediate policy decisions are in place, it is very clear which candidate is going to be better for issues like Gaza.> "If she's going to prevent genocide, this is a good time to talk about it."
Kamala Harris has repeatedly called for a ceasefire for literally the entire year. She is already talking about it.
The issue is that the people protesting have not been listening to her or Biden, nor have they been paying attention to their Congressional and Senate representatives, 2/3rds of which (nearly all Republicans and a third of Democrats) are fully committed to backing Netanyahu right now, and had signaled they would successfully impeach any president who attempts to cut off aid.
There is no more talking to be done. The "GenocideJoe" protesters need to show they can listen, and stop acting as Netanyahu's allies.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon: on last edited by [email protected]
@Raccoon I think something a lot of people don't get is this:
If the pro-palestine bloc is going to be successful, they've got to prove that they are going to provide more benefit to the campaign (and the campaigns of down-ballot candidates) than the harm that AIPAC will bring to any politician who speaks out against israel.
It means getting organized and being *more effective* than AIPAC at the political game.
@Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS -
Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@Raccoon Raising a ruckus, demanding to be heard, then *being heard* and still raising a ruckus does *not* show the politicians that you're going to be there for them, that you're competent at the politics game, and you're going to make a valuable ally.
It shows them you're an untrustworthy and flaky counterparty, and an unreliable negotiator.
@Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@Raccoon Chasing the high of anger and frustration to motivate action is not the basis for reliable and constructive politics.
I would really have hoped people would have learned this by now.
Using anger to build a house will either get you a shitty house, or an incomplete house.
Figure out how to tap into other modes of motivation to drive action.
@Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS -
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Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:replied to Katanova on last edited by
@katanova @Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS
Something that I will say has occurred to me is that we can use these protesters in our fight to get a "Lasting peace in Palestine" plank in the Democrat platform. We already have 2/3 of the Democrat representatives, so it shouldn't be too hard. I don't know that them showing up at rallies is as helpful as these letter campaigns and petitions, but it's at least a physical "these people showed up to do something" that might help.The issue is that I don't expect many of them to actually vote in november, or even be registered, which is what we would need to get the representatives in who would actually further this goal. And of course, whenever they start trying to dissuade people from donation, volunteering, or voting itself, this makes it significantly harder to further the pro-peace candidates like Harris in the first place.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to argv minus one on last edited by
@argv_minus_one Attributing suboptimal behavior to malice won't get us anywhere.
Get that out of your head. They are not malicious. They aren't trying to get trump elected.
You're assuming that they would have the same logic as you, and that they have the same information that you do, to inform their decisions.
Don't feed your own anger. Figure out what their perspective is to engage with them on their level.
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@slcw Probably fed by Russian and Chinese troll & botnets to do so.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to argv minus one on last edited by
@argv_minus_one You're assuming it's the same people as 8 years ago, rather than different people under similar motivations.
8 years ago I was an anarchist and would have been on the side of angry protests against government support of abuse and genocide.
A lot of the people I saw at the pro-palestine protest in Vegas seemed to be college-aged, and 8 years ago would have been in high school.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@argv_minus_one
You appear to be making a similar mistake to those you accuse of being stubborn and malicious: you're building up a straw man of their intentions, and using it to justify your anger and frustration towards them.They're literally not the same individuals as before.
They're people growing into adulthood under similar circumstances.
It's not possible for anyone to learn from someone else's experiences without them being shared.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Toni Aittoniemi on last edited by
@gimulnautti Please don't go throwing around spurious accusations to discredit other people's beliefs.
This isn't helpful. Figure out how to reach those people and persuade them.
Painting them as gullible fools does not put you in a position of being able to empathize with them.
@slcw -
@katanova @slcw Actually I'm not spinning a narrative here.
It's well documented by a huge number of journalists, Jessikka Aro & Anne Applebaum to name a few, that these networks exist and operate with huge resources. 50000 twitter accounts is probably a low estimate.
Russia's Internet Research Agency is just the tip of the iceberg. They sell these services to all autocrats around the world.
But I understand. It's REALLY hard to admit you might have been fooled. You did that painting, too..
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Toni Aittoniemireplied to Toni Aittoniemi on last edited by
@katanova @slcw I don't think of people who believe lies that suit their worldview any less than of people who don't.
Why do you think so low of yourself?
I know people are easily manipulated, and feel a lot of empathy for those that are!
A person’s worth has nothing to do with their gullibility. I'm here for you if you need help!