I thought the Vice President responded to the protestors in Phoenix with respect.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@Raccoon Chasing the high of anger and frustration to motivate action is not the basis for reliable and constructive politics.
I would really have hoped people would have learned this by now.
Using anger to build a house will either get you a shitty house, or an incomplete house.
Figure out how to tap into other modes of motivation to drive action.
@Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS -
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Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:replied to Katanova on last edited by
@katanova @Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS
Something that I will say has occurred to me is that we can use these protesters in our fight to get a "Lasting peace in Palestine" plank in the Democrat platform. We already have 2/3 of the Democrat representatives, so it shouldn't be too hard. I don't know that them showing up at rallies is as helpful as these letter campaigns and petitions, but it's at least a physical "these people showed up to do something" that might help.The issue is that I don't expect many of them to actually vote in november, or even be registered, which is what we would need to get the representatives in who would actually further this goal. And of course, whenever they start trying to dissuade people from donation, volunteering, or voting itself, this makes it significantly harder to further the pro-peace candidates like Harris in the first place.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to argv minus one on last edited by
@argv_minus_one Attributing suboptimal behavior to malice won't get us anywhere.
Get that out of your head. They are not malicious. They aren't trying to get trump elected.
You're assuming that they would have the same logic as you, and that they have the same information that you do, to inform their decisions.
Don't feed your own anger. Figure out what their perspective is to engage with them on their level.
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@slcw Probably fed by Russian and Chinese troll & botnets to do so.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to argv minus one on last edited by
@argv_minus_one You're assuming it's the same people as 8 years ago, rather than different people under similar motivations.
8 years ago I was an anarchist and would have been on the side of angry protests against government support of abuse and genocide.
A lot of the people I saw at the pro-palestine protest in Vegas seemed to be college-aged, and 8 years ago would have been in high school.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@argv_minus_one
You appear to be making a similar mistake to those you accuse of being stubborn and malicious: you're building up a straw man of their intentions, and using it to justify your anger and frustration towards them.They're literally not the same individuals as before.
They're people growing into adulthood under similar circumstances.
It's not possible for anyone to learn from someone else's experiences without them being shared.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Toni Aittoniemi on last edited by
@gimulnautti Please don't go throwing around spurious accusations to discredit other people's beliefs.
This isn't helpful. Figure out how to reach those people and persuade them.
Painting them as gullible fools does not put you in a position of being able to empathize with them.
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@katanova @slcw Actually I'm not spinning a narrative here.
It's well documented by a huge number of journalists, Jessikka Aro & Anne Applebaum to name a few, that these networks exist and operate with huge resources. 50000 twitter accounts is probably a low estimate.
Russia's Internet Research Agency is just the tip of the iceberg. They sell these services to all autocrats around the world.
But I understand. It's REALLY hard to admit you might have been fooled. You did that painting, too..
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Toni Aittoniemireplied to Toni Aittoniemi on last edited by
@katanova @slcw I don't think of people who believe lies that suit their worldview any less than of people who don't.
Why do you think so low of yourself?
I know people are easily manipulated, and feel a lot of empathy for those that are!
A person’s worth has nothing to do with their gullibility. I'm here for you if you need help!
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Toni Aittoniemi on last edited by
@gimulnautti Oon, really nice dodge of the point I was making, and turning around the argument to paint me as someone calling themselves a fool.
I accept the assertion that these propaganda networks exist.
You're aiming for points on the internet, to persuade bystanders, in this conversation.
This is precisely the wrong approach to persuade actual people.
For example, in this conversation, you come across to me as a smug asshole, and I'm *on your side* with this.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@gimulnautti Good job with those skills to appear competent and persuasive to third-party observers.
Minus points on engaging with me like I'm an actual person you're trying to have a conversation *with* rather than someone to use to prove your point to other people.
Of course, *I'm* also the fool for trying to have a sincere exchange in a public forum. It's the nature of public forums like this for the exchange to be warped by trying to appeal to observers.
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Jon Quassreplied to Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon: on last edited by
@Raccoon
So yeah, the people that want genocide to end can just shut up about it already, they are going to get what they want of course! Eventually, if we win, probably. I mean, everything a presidential candidate says happens quickly, and it's not like genocide happens quickly or anything. We have time, they have plenty of kids and old people left...Hard to see how you are the ally of Palestinians, so don't expect them to be happy with you either
@Ralph058 @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS
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Valley of the Dragonreplied to Jon Quass on last edited by
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I've spent my entire life learning from the failures of others. It's the basic function of an intelligent life form. It's the whole reason why we have these gigantic brains.
Now, perhaps someone who doesn't pay attention to politics would miss the memo, but I assume these “anarchists” would have me believe that they're politically astute? That denies them any excuse for their failure to learn from 2016.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to argv minus one on last edited by
@argv_minus_one
It's good that you've learned from your mistakes. How do you pass on the skill of being able to learn from your mistakes?"you're fucking up, knock it off" only works on a very small portion of the population, who are open to criticism.
Just like you're getting defensive and insisting that you're right about your position, such is the way people are.
If you're wrong, how would you know? How would you be open to someone saying you're wrong?
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BitcoDavid #FuckTrumpreplied to DrD on last edited by
@NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews
Remember how they brought in RW fakes to gin up the crowds at the George Floyd protests?
Then, after the Insurrection, they claimed it was "Antifa?"
I'm willing to bet that most of these "protesters" are really just RW fakes.
Not all of 'em. But MOST of 'em.
I think if you're on the side of defending Palestinians, you know that Kamala is your only hope.
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Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to BitcoDavid #FuckTrump on last edited by
@bitcodavid Please don't do this.
I talked with pro-palestine protesters after the Las Vegas rally on saturday.
They are people just like you and me.
Finding ways to otherize them and build them up as unreasonable and insincere does not do us any good.
They are people with sincere cares just like you and me.