I thought the Vice President responded to the protestors in Phoenix with respect.
-
Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@timbray "You should be more afraid of us than the other guy" may be an effective tactic to get something resembling what you want, if you're actually right.
But it's not an effective way to get a seat at the table.
And if you're successful in a harassment campaign to achieve an objective, you certainly won't be effective a second time.
Big stick diplomacy only works when you've got the bigger stick.
-
Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@timbray
And on top of that, "big stick diplomacy" doesn't work if you say "I'm going to use the stick if you don't talk to me" and then they talk with you, and you use the stick anyway.All you do is prove yourself to be an untrustworthy counterparty.
I really get it. I used to be an anarchist filled with anger and frustration at all the shitty things that never seem to end.
Your anger will not be sated by forcing other people to listen.
@NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews -
@timbray @NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews Protesting Kamala Harris has got to be the single dumbest thing the pro-Palestinian protesters can do if they're legitimately concerned about the future of the Palestinian people. I mean, talk about pissing in your own face! They should be doing everything they can to ensure Trump doesn't prevail, and that means supporting his one opponent. Their bullshit antics are the epitome of counterproductive.
-
@slcw @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS The point is to make the Harris/Walz campaign make a firm statement on a ceasefire NOW, to hopefully bring about the end of Palestinians suffering in Gaza.
The campaign cannot be wishy-washy on this. It hurts them to be vague. The people who want to allow the Palestinians to continue to suffer are voting for Trump anyway.
-
@knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS Not gonna happen. Maybe it would have had these petulant protesters acted like civilized adults, but that's not what they're doing. If they think they can bully their way to achieving their goals, there's a whole lot of disappointment in their future. They're hurting their cause, and the Palestinian people by behaving this way. They're not getting a damn thing through bullying and force.
-
@slcw @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS You sound awfully confident, but the campaign has had to stop and acknowledge them multiple times. Seems to be working.
Harris will not lose voters by taking a firm stance on Israel’s genocidal campaign. Those voters are already hoping Trump gets in and gives the green light to Netanyahu to keep going. It only benefits the Harris campaign to make a decision now about not supporting Israel’s genocide.
Every day they stay on the fence is a day Trump’s campaign can use it as a wedge. That won’t be the fault of the protestors.
-
@knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS Harris is not on the protesters' side. She's not going roll over and acquiesce to their demands just because they keep showing up to scream at her and interrupt her speeches. That shit simply does not work. These protesters need to decide if they actually care about the Palestinian people, or if it's just a basis for them to yell and act rowdy. The Palestinians are done if Trump wins, so It's time for the petulance to stop.
-
Lee Fife - old accountreplied to SLCW💥 on last edited by
@slcw @timbray @NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews exactly right.It's easy to be irresponsible and feel good about counter productive protesting, esply if you're not going to vote in this election....
-
Stybba3019replied to Lee Fife - old account on last edited by
@colo_lee @slcw @NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews
In the end, this isn't the only issue for the majority of voters. It is important to most Dem voters but may not be the most critical one. It isn't something that can be done by fiat, which the hecklers don't seem to want to accept. It takes so little to destroy what others are trying to build. Too many malign forces keep ripping away hope of peace because chaos suits them better.
-
Alexander Hamizdat for Harrisreplied to Stybba3019 on last edited by
@Stybba3019 @colo_lee @slcw @NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews surveys say Gaza is the #1 issue for approximately 3% of Democratic voters.
We should call them "Three Percenters".
-
Risottoreplied to Alexander Hamizdat for Harris on last edited by
@alexhammy @Stybba3019 @colo_lee @[email protected] @NZedAUS @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews being a # 1 issue for a small group doesn't mean it isn't a lower priority but still important optics for a lot of others
but yeah probably civil rights, the economy, democracy, rule of law at home outrank foreign affairs and genocide abroad...
biden didn't want to forgive student debt during the campaign. he flat out told a town hall question no.
however, due to constant public pressure he changed his tune in the administration.
it's /okay/ to pressure politicians to be better. billionaires won't stop pressuring them. the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
by demonstrating that the Uncommitted movement had a sizable unified voting block (in an election that could go south), Harris kinda has to consider them as a factor. (e.g., the VP pick)
does she need to be perfect? no.
is it in the bag and the campaign can rest? hell no.
are protesters who ask for human rights to be respected similar to oligarchs? absolutely fucking not.
-
@slcw
I want to point out that the protestors are a chance for Harris to show what she's going to do, and if it is different from what Biden has been doing. If she's going to prevent genocide, this is a good time to talk about it.Palestinians face an existential crisis. Telling protestors to shut up about it doesn't seem like the right way to win them over.
-
Ralph058 (S/he/it) 4 Harrisreplied to Jon Quass on last edited by
-
Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:replied to Ralph058 (S/he/it) 4 Harris on last edited by
@Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS
Yeah, regardless of what sort of immediate policy decisions are in place, it is very clear which candidate is going to be better for issues like Gaza.> "If she's going to prevent genocide, this is a good time to talk about it."
Kamala Harris has repeatedly called for a ceasefire for literally the entire year. She is already talking about it.
The issue is that the people protesting have not been listening to her or Biden, nor have they been paying attention to their Congressional and Senate representatives, 2/3rds of which (nearly all Republicans and a third of Democrats) are fully committed to backing Netanyahu right now, and had signaled they would successfully impeach any president who attempts to cut off aid.
There is no more talking to be done. The "GenocideJoe" protesters need to show they can listen, and stop acting as Netanyahu's allies.
-
Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon: on last edited by [email protected]
@Raccoon I think something a lot of people don't get is this:
If the pro-palestine bloc is going to be successful, they've got to prove that they are going to provide more benefit to the campaign (and the campaigns of down-ballot candidates) than the harm that AIPAC will bring to any politician who speaks out against israel.
It means getting organized and being *more effective* than AIPAC at the political game.
@Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS -
Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@Raccoon Raising a ruckus, demanding to be heard, then *being heard* and still raising a ruckus does *not* show the politicians that you're going to be there for them, that you're competent at the politics game, and you're going to make a valuable ally.
It shows them you're an untrustworthy and flaky counterparty, and an unreliable negotiator.
@Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS
-
Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to Katanova on last edited by
@Raccoon Chasing the high of anger and frustration to motivate action is not the basis for reliable and constructive politics.
I would really have hoped people would have learned this by now.
Using anger to build a house will either get you a shitty house, or an incomplete house.
Figure out how to tap into other modes of motivation to drive action.
@Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS -
-
Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:replied to Katanova on last edited by
@katanova @Ralph058 @jonquass @slcw @knova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews @timbray @NZedAUS
Something that I will say has occurred to me is that we can use these protesters in our fight to get a "Lasting peace in Palestine" plank in the Democrat platform. We already have 2/3 of the Democrat representatives, so it shouldn't be too hard. I don't know that them showing up at rallies is as helpful as these letter campaigns and petitions, but it's at least a physical "these people showed up to do something" that might help.The issue is that I don't expect many of them to actually vote in november, or even be registered, which is what we would need to get the representatives in who would actually further this goal. And of course, whenever they start trying to dissuade people from donation, volunteering, or voting itself, this makes it significantly harder to further the pro-peace candidates like Harris in the first place.
-
Katanova, the Forest Nomadreplied to argv minus one on last edited by
@argv_minus_one Attributing suboptimal behavior to malice won't get us anywhere.
Get that out of your head. They are not malicious. They aren't trying to get trump elected.
You're assuming that they would have the same logic as you, and that they have the same information that you do, to inform their decisions.
Don't feed your own anger. Figure out what their perspective is to engage with them on their level.