Scifi was created by neurodivergents and co-opted by normies.
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i dunno, ok, but that's like saying the theory of relativity, or the mona lisa, was created by a neurodivergent and co-opted by normies. some of us are artists, and some of us work the fields. without either we all starve.
It's always an argument over value with you people.
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In the 2nd century some guy wrote about travelling to the moon...
Where he found Moon people who were at war with the sun people.
By your definition, isn't that also SciFi?
Kinda! I wouldn't say that it is exactly science fiction since our modern understanding of the scientific method didn't really exist back then, but it's fiction using extrapolations of what might be possible based upon the natural rules of the world. Those extrapolations are used to justify and explain the things that would otherwise be impossible, which is the core of what science fiction is to me. It probably doesn't vibe like modern sci-fi, but science fiction is not based on vibes.
Like, don't get me wrong, I fucking love 50s and 60s sci-fi. I read Rendezvous with Rama (EDIT: 70s, not 60s! I'm surprised, I thought Rama came out before 2001) when I was 8 and the novelization of 2001 right afterwards and that had a tremendous impact on my life. I just don't think Arthur C. Clarke or Heinlein or Asimov created science fiction. They pioneered new subgenres and ideas that have been hugely influential for everything that came afterwards.
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It's always an argument over value with you people.
It's always an argument over just how special a snowflake you are with you people
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It's been a long journey since:
If we count Frankenstein as scifi…
Then stuff centuries earlier also count as scifi, and she’s out of the discussion again.
But I'm glad you understand now.
Seems like you got pissy.
I used Shelly dude to the prominence of her being called "the first sci-fi author" as an example as to why it wasn't created by poor meth heads.
YOU took issue with that.
What are you trying to prove?
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Seems like you got pissy.
I used Shelly dude to the prominence of her being called "the first sci-fi author" as an example as to why it wasn't created by poor meth heads.
YOU took issue with that.
What are you trying to prove?
What are you trying to prove?
What I just quoted and you just agreed with...
If we count Frankenstein as scifi…
Then stuff centuries earlier also count as scifi, and she’s out of the discussion again.
I'm not sure why you're upset with me, now that we're on the same page...
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It's always an argument over just how special a snowflake you are with you people
Oh zing!
See, it's always about value with you people.
So it's always about who gets the credit. Who gets valued and who doesn't. Who wins and who loses. That eternal muck of monkey dominance battles that we call politics.
This bs dominates the common mind utterly. There's no room for art there. It's invisible.
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What are you trying to prove?
What I just quoted and you just agreed with...
If we count Frankenstein as scifi…
Then stuff centuries earlier also count as scifi, and she’s out of the discussion again.
I'm not sure why you're upset with me, now that we're on the same page...
We're not. And my point has always been your initial comment in this thread is false at best.
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Oh zing!
See, it's always about value with you people.
So it's always about who gets the credit. Who gets valued and who doesn't. Who wins and who loses. That eternal muck of monkey dominance battles that we call politics.
This bs dominates the common mind utterly. There's no room for art there. It's invisible.
and yet, you felt it was needed to point out the credit/value between neurodivergents and "normies" lol
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It is funny. There are so many things in modern day that would be a dream come true to young me but it all goes dystopia and all the fantasy and scifi is one of those things. I thought I would love so much but so much is not done well. I sorta feel for gay people because being into scifi was a subculture but it going mainstream has greatly diminished the subculture as it sorta becomes unnecessary but I miss that small group feeling.
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Kinda! I wouldn't say that it is exactly science fiction since our modern understanding of the scientific method didn't really exist back then, but it's fiction using extrapolations of what might be possible based upon the natural rules of the world. Those extrapolations are used to justify and explain the things that would otherwise be impossible, which is the core of what science fiction is to me. It probably doesn't vibe like modern sci-fi, but science fiction is not based on vibes.
Like, don't get me wrong, I fucking love 50s and 60s sci-fi. I read Rendezvous with Rama (EDIT: 70s, not 60s! I'm surprised, I thought Rama came out before 2001) when I was 8 and the novelization of 2001 right afterwards and that had a tremendous impact on my life. I just don't think Arthur C. Clarke or Heinlein or Asimov created science fiction. They pioneered new subgenres and ideas that have been hugely influential for everything that came afterwards.
since our modern understanding of the scientific method didn’t really exist back then,
Didn't exist when Mary Shelly did either...
That's my point, by it's very nature "the first scifi" isn't a fixed date due to scientific advancement.
Agriculture is a science, and it was a bigger deal than electricity when it was new, but we don't say every story with a plow is scifi anymore.
Hell, look at Jason and the Argonauts using bleeding edge navigation skills to travel to far off lands we couldn't imagine. The only difference is water instead of space.
This isn't a new process, we're talking about where modern humans draw a line that's been redrawn since the dawn of humanity.
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and yet, you felt it was needed to point out the credit/value between neurodivergents and "normies" lol
No, that's just your damn limited, dominance games obsessed perspective talking.
My point is actually the quality and appreciation of modern science fiction.
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It is funny. There are so many things in modern day that would be a dream come true to young me but it all goes dystopia and all the fantasy and scifi is one of those things. I thought I would love so much but so much is not done well. I sorta feel for gay people because being into scifi was a subculture but it going mainstream has greatly diminished the subculture as it sorta becomes unnecessary but I miss that small group feeling.
Greg Egan, Iain Banks and Sam Hughes are good stuff, if you haven't.
Also, there's this amazing new genre, "LitRpg". Basically fantasy where an rpg type videogame became real.
Most of it is the usual dreck but some of it goes hard sf, delving into the existential stuff.
A couple of the rationalists have even taken a swing.
Try
Mother of Learning
Death after death
Friendship is optimal
So ya, real development is still alive.
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Sometimes an asshole is just an asshole.
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No, that's just your damn limited, dominance games obsessed perspective talking.
My point is actually the quality and appreciation of modern science fiction.
does quality and appreciation hold no value?
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I don't understand. Which authors are you referring to that created the genre and are neurodivergant?
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I don't understand. Which authors are you referring to that created the genre and are neurodivergant?
Great question. Even in recent classic eras of science fiction, it wouldn't have been safe for authors (who need publisher trust to buy food) to get diagnosed as neurodivergent, so I feel like we're left with wether neurodivergent individuals embrace their work.
Disclaimer: I'm not neurodivergent. I don't feel safe seeking a diagnosis. And things aren't binary, so what the hell. I do acknowledge it's interesting that I relate strongly with a bunch of these characters, and can bring them to memory quickly as some of my favorites...
With that disclaimed:
- "The November People" by Ray Bradbury comes to mind. It explores how classic Hollywood monsters would handle themselves as roommates, mostly through exploring their mental diversity rooted in their physical/cultural differences.
- Asimov's robot detective stories (start with The Caves of Steel) have protagonists whose planets effectively make them neordivergent anytime they visit another planet than their birth world.
- "Stranger in a Strange Land", by Heinlein, is about a neurodivergent (for Earth) young man who grew up as the sole citizen of Mars.
- Philip K Dick's detective protagonist from "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" (aka Blade Runner) is clearly neurodivergent, as is his wife.
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Modern sci-fi was created by an extremely depressed widow that only thought about the social and scientific repercussions of bringing her husband back from the dead and put it in the form of literature. And appreciation for Sci Fi has been around for a very long time. Nosferatur, The Haunting, House on Haunted Hill, The Blob, The Day The Earth Stood Still, War Of The World's, etc...
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Greg Egan, Iain Banks and Sam Hughes are good stuff, if you haven't.
Also, there's this amazing new genre, "LitRpg". Basically fantasy where an rpg type videogame became real.
Most of it is the usual dreck but some of it goes hard sf, delving into the existential stuff.
A couple of the rationalists have even taken a swing.
Try
Mother of Learning
Death after death
Friendship is optimal
So ya, real development is still alive.
LitRpg
I don't think this is new; The Sleeping Dragon by Joel Rosenberg was published in 1983 where players in a tabletop RPG get whooshed into the game world at the beginning of the book. Fun series.
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That's not entirely true. There's still good sci-fi being made. Look at the expanse, dark, altered carbon.
I dont know much about newer books, but I m sure there's good scifi writers out there still. What comes to mind is ready player one, red rising, pines, although these are all 10 years old by now. It illustrates that it's not just the era of Heinlein and Asimov that counts.
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Modern sci-fi was created by an extremely depressed widow that only thought about the social and scientific repercussions of bringing her husband back from the dead and put it in the form of literature. And appreciation for Sci Fi has been around for a very long time. Nosferatur, The Haunting, House on Haunted Hill, The Blob, The Day The Earth Stood Still, War Of The World's, etc...
