A poll: how do you feel about the general idea of starter packs (or some equivalent) on fedi?

Scott Feeney

@thenexusofprivacy it would be a mistake to require additional opt-in, beyond the opt-in for discovery features and the already-existing setting to approve followers.

99% of people who want their friends and community to find them, won't know that setting exists.

It was also a mistake to require an additional opt-in for full text search.

Mastodon leans too hard on opt-ins that make it hard to use Mastodon effectively, and should instead improve moderation and safety tools.

Mastodon Migration

@thenexusofprivacy @dansup @julian @thisismissem @djsundog @graue @laurenshof

The other potential problem, of course, with really large packs could be an explosion of follows which could potentially have unforeseen consequences both technically and socially.

So, max pack size is something we really should think about.

The Nexus of Privacy

@graue Thanks. In my view, it was completely the right thing for Mastodon to make full-text search opt-in. Many people in the fediverse value consent, and that battle got fought multiple times.

Starter packs are a somewhat different situation because there's already a consent option that's a close match, so I'm curious to hear what the feedback is on this.

Barktic Fox :therian:

@thenexusofprivacy I don’t think any kind of direct message from the creator would be needed. It could just be an extension of the existing follow notifications (or follow requests, if packs are opt-in). I’m always leery of having automated systems commingled with normal human channels of behavior, so an auto-composed post or DM just feels icky to me.

Something else to continue on from my other reply to this conversation that I just thought of: if someone has manual follow request approvals enabled, that should probably be used as a signal that the person doesn’t want to be included in a starter pack.

The Nexus of Privacy

@alahmnat it’s a great point, I hadn’t thought of extending the follow notification- thanks!

The Newsmast Foundation

@Soments21 CC: @thenexusofprivacy

Sorry to jump in but we based our knowledge-sharing app and Communities off of newspaper sections, so you might be interested in our Communities!

There are 62 Communities and they can be quite active so we recommend following in a list so they don't take over your feed.

You can see all of them in this thread: https://newsmast.social/@newsmast/111840234033144502

Julian Fietkau

@mastodonmigration @thenexusofprivacy This question makes me ponder the differences between starter packs and opt-in lists (e.g. Academics on Mastodon) again. On https://directory.hci.social I have a bit under 200 people, and it allows for follow CSV import. Maybe if the goal is to network an academic field, that's a use case for longer lists? I certainly wouldn't want to exclude anyone, and have always given the advice (especially to newcomers) to follow liberally and prune when needed.

The Nexus of Privacy

It's a great point. For an academic disciplinelimiting the list size is going to be exclusionary -- and apmplify rich-get-richer dynamics (because a shorter list will include the best-known people) and in most cases diversity issues.

And I don't think this is particularly unique to academic disciplines, I see the same dynamics in other scenarios as well. But I also see @mastodonmigration's points, it really is a quandry!

@julian

mav :happy_blob:

@thenexusofprivacy
I genuinely don't get the mass appeal of starter packs, why do I want to follow 200 people at once? No. Never.

I'm pretty disappointed with their implementation on bsky, being able to use a list as a "starter pack" would be a lot more productive IMO. We already have lists and they're much more productive.

The Nexus of Privacy

@mav I don’t ever do a follow-all but I find them very useful. Oh look, here’s 30 experts in decolonization. Here’s 45 critical AI theorists. Etc. it’s true that it’s not that different from a public list, and the spreadsheets for academics (etc) play a similar role with a very low-tech UI for those who know about them, but I do think it’s a useful concept

The Nexus of Privacy

@mav also specifically in the Bluesky context people are trying to recover/expand their Twitter networks, and folllow all can make sense for that if it’s a pack from somebody you trust

GunChleoc

@thenexusofprivacy Since the software does not know what's a personal account and what's an organizational account, this could be an option in the user account with multiple states:

1. Never allow
2. Always allow
3. Require confirmation

You should also be able to remove yourself later if you're getting overwhelmed with interactions.

GunChleoc

@thenexusofprivacy There should also be a list in your settings to opt in/out later

GunChleoc

@thenexusofprivacy As a server admin, I can define a list of follow recommendations - this is already a type of starter pack, but with any possibility to opt-out for the accounts listed.

This is of course only a possibility for niche servers.

GunChleoc

@thenexusofprivacy @mastodonmigration @julian Maybe there could be 2 categories of starter packs: A "Starter" pack with a short list of accounts and a "Directory" that aims for a long list.

GunChleoc

@thenexusofprivacy @alahmnat That's a great idea - make the starter pack a fedi account

GunChleoc

@thenexusofprivacy @graue I'm against using the nobot hashtag. I have this one in my profile because I want to be able to pick my particular bots. I'd be fine with being added to a starter pack.

GunChleoc

@thenexusofprivacy @mav I think the onboarding issue here is discoverability of the directories themselves. If you've been here for a while, you know where the directories are, but newcomers will benefit from something that gets presented to them by the software itself and that they won't have to go looking for - especially if they're not tech nerds or academics.