Mastodon is financed by crowdfunding instead of venture capital not because we don't know that venture capital exists, not because we don't have bills to pay, and not because venture capital isn't willing to give money to new social media platforms.

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger I have a last question to ask, which is: you said that Gargron was trying to bring advertising to the Fediverse, and pointed to the SWF mission page, implying that that's what we're trying to and that by being a supporter, that's what Mastodon wants, also.

I've told you that it's *not* our purpose. Will you keep saying that, regardless? And if so, what would it take for you to believe that it's not the case?

katzenberger

@evan

I'd like to see people stewarding a standard abstaining from openly instrumentalizing the standardization process for their own agenda.

But then, I also see people posting things like "I’m going to continue doing the work I’ve done for the W3C and other ActivityPub projects: protocol refinement, documentation, meetings, speaking engagements, reports. But from here, I’ll be doing it with my SWF hat on."

And when people openly say what they are going to do, I believe them.

Which means, essentially, that I neither trust you, nor the foundation, and particularly not the "advisors" that foundation has chosen.

[2024-10-26 Update: I have been asked to link to the source for the quote, it is https://write.as/evanp/announcing-the-social-web-foundation]

katzenberger

@evan

Yes, you have told me that was not your purpose.

Hence, let me re-quote what you have already quoted, from the web page where your foundation expressly states their "Mission". I'm going to highlight some parts, for your convenience:

»Whether that’s advertising supported, or funded by charities and non-profits, or based on paid-for services, or affiliate revenue, we are working to find ways that companies can do well in the Fediverse.«

I do not even have the number of legs that you obviously seem to be trying to pull here. ‍️

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger so, why are you skipping over those other ways that Fediverse servers can be supported?

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger I want to check: do you know that there are ad-supported Mastodon servers, and that there are ad-supported accounts?

Would it make you more comfortable if we didn't acknowledge ads as a way that Fediverse services are supported?

katzenberger

@evan

Now that I have confronted you with a quote that expressly contradicts the claim you had made only minutes before, you're trying to deflect?

Sorry, this discussion is a waste of time. Have a good day.

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger OK. Good luck in your work, and don't hesitate to reach out if you'd like to talk further.

CM Harrington

@williampietri @Gargron Anything that requires an exit strategy in order to get money is a fucking scam.

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger what do you think my agenda is? Based on what you know of me?

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger oh, and: I updated our mission page to better reflect what we plan to work on. Here's the new version of the paragraph that you objected to:

"We want the Fediverse to be sustainable

The Fediverse cannot thrive without those who build and maintain infrastructure like clients or servers, and social infrastructure like moderation. We want the people and organizations who provide those services to have the financial and mental health support they need for the long haul."

Sam Whited

@uexo @wysteriary @Gargron yah, every other VC-funded open source project uses this exact same argument "we're different, we haven't let it affect us" right up until the moment the investors start putting pressure on for returns. Matrix is no different, in fact they started re-inventing the wheel specifically so that they could get big VC dollars, so there's no chance they wouldn't make huge compromises if those dollars were under threat.

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger We're doing strategic planning right now among the founders, and we've been discussing a change from "financially viable" to "sustainable" for a while, so I just did it. We'll make more changes to the Web site over the next few months, too. Please feel free to let me or the other team members know if there's something on the Web site that is giving you pause.