Figure I should post this here as well.
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@hallenbeck @markdarb @mmasnick
This rings true. It was a definite subset that were riled up, but that's cool, they have every right and ability to block such bridges at will. But I agree most - to my experience 90 percent plus, welcome it.
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@damon @hallenbeck Agree with Damon on how that went down, and that Ryan handled it with great grace and care.
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@hallenbeck @mackuba @markdarb @mmasnick @mike @snarfed.org
Yes exactly this. Each server can have its own opt-in or out rules -- as long as they state it clearly.
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It's that plurality thing again, huh?
I vaguely recall a joke one of my older relatives used to tell about their rabbi (who like all rabbis in these jokes is wise and long-suffering) ... two people were both upset at him because he refuses to take a side in their dispute and he keeps saying they're both right, the punchline is him sighing heavily and says "you're right, you're right, you're both right ..."
I haven't heard that interview, thanks for sharing ... she's very astute, looking forward to it!
@[email protected] @[email protected] -
oh blush ... thanks! always nice to hear! @[email protected]
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Yeah really. Well said. This attitude has real consequences to the Fediverse as a whole.
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@tchambers @mackuba @markdarb @mmasnick @mike @snarfed.org
Exactly that
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@hallenbeck
Idk if Ryan is open to changing that, he wrote this before the launch https://snarfed.org/2024-01-21_moderate-people-not-code
We also had him on our podcast prior to his appearance on Dot Social, https://wedistribute.org/podcast/bridgyfed-ryan-barrett/ -
I appreciate the Apache license protections for those who use your software; that's not enough.
You need to make a written pledge as an organization that any patents you make on the work you do are freely licensed. Right now, you're putting everyone in the space at risk. We don't know if you're going to overreach and patent distributed social networking, or user profiles, or whatever.
Fortunately, you have one of the smartest patent defenders on the planet on your board.
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@deadsuperhero Hey, Sean. So, I want to address your issues directly.
First, you and your team have decided to cover both the Fediverse and Bluesky. I understand why you'd do that, and I don't think I've given you a hard time about it at all.
I've made a different decision about how I'd like to spend my time and energy. Could you maybe treat my decision with the same respect that I treat yours?
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I don't, actually, cuss people out, insult them, or attack them when I talk about protocols.
I make the simple point that protocols are a social, not a technical, issue; that competition between products is a good thing and competition between protocols is a bad one; and that protocols that are defined in open standards bodies are vastly superior for general use than proprietary protocols defined by a single company.
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@deadsuperhero That's a hard message to hear if you're making a proprietary protocol startup, I know. And if you've invested your time and reputation on their ecosystem.
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@deadsuperhero The re-framing that Bluesky uses, instead, is that there is a vast field of social networking protocols, all effectively equal in standing, and that the comparisons to be made are technical rather than social.
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@deadsuperhero @mmasnick.bsky.social wants to frame social networking protocols as a Pinewood Derby where lots of earnest competitors are trying their dangedest to make the fastest little car.
He's not willing to face the fact that he's on the board of a company that is trying to enclose the commons, and that it's a very risky strategy.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by [email protected]
@deadsuperhero I really dislike how much you erase other people, companies, and organizations in the ActivityPub space when you talk to me. AP is not "my" protocol; it very literally belongs to all of us. Hundreds of people have edited, implemented, documented and debugged the ActivityPub protocol and API, and it's really unfair to try to make it all about me.
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@deadsuperhero Lastly, you ask why I don't learn from Bluesky. As I mentioned, the patent status of the AT Protocol is up in the air; because they have a proprietary protocol that has not been through an open standards process, I don't know what the patent status is on the techniques. Consequently, I've tried to avoid Bluesky; I don't have an account, I haven't reviewed the protocol documents, and I don't try to emulate the features. I can't afford to introduce patented techniques into AP.
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@deadsuperhero I do really appreciate the BridgyFed bridge, and I like being able to read posts by people who use the network.
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@evan This isn’t about We Distribute or your reception of it. It’s about how you engage with people who don’t want to build on ActivityPub, along with a general unwillingness to listen to feedback about the protocol’s shortcomings. I’ve seen you literally say to people that they should build on ActivityPub, and this other thing that they’re trying to do isn’t worth anybody’s attention.
This general hostility is cancer to communities. It’s on par with RMS and the Free Software Foundation, in the sense of pursuing one form of “correctness” above all others, and berating others for not doing things your way. It’s legitimately awful from the standpoint of advocacy, and leads me to believe that you might not be the best person to serve as a community advocate.
I can’t respect that. If anything, this situation has all but taken the wind out of my sails, to the point that I’ve contemplated closing my site and leaving forever. The Fediverse is not salvageable if you’re not willing to find meaningful change within yourself.
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@deadsuperhero I appreciate your friendly advice about conveying the message. I want to let you know that I've heard it, thought about it, and probably will not follow it. I feel like it's important to hold a firm line on open standards, and to counteract the Pinewood Derby paradigm which serves a single company's goals at the expense of the rest of the Internet.
