Figure I should post this here as well.

Tim Chambers - VOTED

@mmasnick @markdarb @evan I do think that there are some practical things the ATProtocol folks can do to make bridging between them and AP cleaner: the very dead simplest one is change their post size to 500 characters.

And I do think folks on the fedi allergic to bridging have plenty of means and agency to block it and only a (albeit loud) 5 percent would. Most would welcome a robust bridge to BlueSky.

hallenbeck

@jdp23 @snarfed.org @damon

I very much appreciate your blog. I'm subbed in my RSS reader and always happy when a new post drops. I've learned a lot from it.

Tim Chambers - VOTED

@hallenbeck @markdarb @mmasnick

This rings true. It was a definite subset that were riled up, but that's cool, they have every right and ability to block such bridges at will. But I agree most - to my experience 90 percent plus, welcome it.

Tim Chambers - VOTED

@damon @hallenbeck Agree with Damon on how that went down, and that Ryan handled it with great grace and care.

Tim Chambers - VOTED

@hallenbeck @mackuba @markdarb @mmasnick @mike @snarfed.org

Yes exactly this. Each server can have its own opt-in or out rules -- as long as they state it clearly.

Jon

It's that plurality thing again, huh?

I vaguely recall a joke one of my older relatives used to tell about their rabbi (who like all rabbis in these jokes is wise and long-suffering) ... two people were both upset at him because he refuses to take a side in their dispute and he keeps saying they're both right, the punchline is him sighing heavily and says "you're right, you're right, you're both right ..."

I haven't heard that interview, thanks for sharing ... she's very astute, looking forward to it!

@[email protected] @[email protected]

Jon

oh blush ... thanks! always nice to hear! @[email protected]

Jon

Yeah really. Well said. This attitude has real consequences to the Fediverse as a whole.

@deadsuperhero @evan @mmasnick

hallenbeck

@tchambers @mackuba @markdarb @mmasnick @mike @snarfed.org

Exactly that

damon

@hallenbeck
Idk if Ryan is open to changing that, he wrote this before the launch https://snarfed.org/2024-01-21_moderate-people-not-code
We also had him on our podcast prior to his appearance on Dot Social, https://wedistribute.org/podcast/bridgyfed-ryan-barrett/

Evan Prodromou

@bnewbold @mmasnick

I appreciate the Apache license protections for those who use your software; that's not enough.

You need to make a written pledge as an organization that any patents you make on the work you do are freely licensed. Right now, you're putting everyone in the space at risk. We don't know if you're going to overreach and patent distributed social networking, or user profiles, or whatever.

Fortunately, you have one of the smartest patent defenders on the planet on your board.

Evan Prodromou

@bnewbold @mmasnick also, thank you so much for addressing my concerns directly instead of telling me what a bad person I am for having them.

Evan Prodromou

@deadsuperhero Hey, Sean. So, I want to address your issues directly.

First, you and your team have decided to cover both the Fediverse and Bluesky. I understand why you'd do that, and I don't think I've given you a hard time about it at all.

I've made a different decision about how I'd like to spend my time and energy. Could you maybe treat my decision with the same respect that I treat yours?

Evan Prodromou

@deadsuperhero

I don't, actually, cuss people out, insult them, or attack them when I talk about protocols.

I make the simple point that protocols are a social, not a technical, issue; that competition between products is a good thing and competition between protocols is a bad one; and that protocols that are defined in open standards bodies are vastly superior for general use than proprietary protocols defined by a single company.

Evan Prodromou

@deadsuperhero That's a hard message to hear if you're making a proprietary protocol startup, I know. And if you've invested your time and reputation on their ecosystem.

Evan Prodromou

@deadsuperhero The re-framing that Bluesky uses, instead, is that there is a vast field of social networking protocols, all effectively equal in standing, and that the comparisons to be made are technical rather than social.

Evan Prodromou

@deadsuperhero @mmasnick.bsky.social wants to frame social networking protocols as a Pinewood Derby where lots of earnest competitors are trying their dangedest to make the fastest little car.

He's not willing to face the fact that he's on the board of a company that is trying to enclose the commons, and that it's a very risky strategy.

Evan Prodromou

@deadsuperhero I really dislike how much you erase other people, companies, and organizations in the ActivityPub space when you talk to me. AP is not "my" protocol; it very literally belongs to all of us. Hundreds of people have edited, implemented, documented and debugged the ActivityPub protocol and API, and it's really unfair to try to make it all about me.

Evan Prodromou

@deadsuperhero Lastly, you ask why I don't learn from Bluesky. As I mentioned, the patent status of the AT Protocol is up in the air; because they have a proprietary protocol that has not been through an open standards process, I don't know what the patent status is on the techniques. Consequently, I've tried to avoid Bluesky; I don't have an account, I haven't reviewed the protocol documents, and I don't try to emulate the features. I can't afford to introduce patented techniques into AP.

Evan Prodromou

@deadsuperhero I do really appreciate the BridgyFed bridge, and I like being able to read posts by people who use the network.