things i would like to see in mastodon that pleroma has been able to do for years:

Emelia 👸🏻

@ariadne rejecting content based on hashtag has been on my list to do for Mastodon, but needs this activitypub issue resolved: https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/424

This was an early attempt at this in Mastodon: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/29264

Just silently dropping the message may not be the best option, hence needing community consensus on best practices

Pac O’Lantern Hope

@ariadne @SpaceLifeForm Glitch is just a small patch to core mastodon. Mostly about UI improvements.

Ariadne Conill 🐰:therian:

@paco @SpaceLifeForm thank you for explaining glitch to me, as somebody who uses glitch already

Pac O’Lantern Hope

@ariadne You were CCed, effectively. I was answering @SpaceLifeForm who asked the question and tagged me into the conversation. I didn’t take much care to move userids around to make it clear who I was addressing. Sorry.

Ariadne Conill 🐰:therian:

@paco @SpaceLifeForm no worries, sorry for being snippy

FinchHaven

@thisismissem

This is interesting, but raises several questions for me (not that I'm anyone) that I've not seen addressed

Maybe early days in the larger issue, or something

Is this seen as content rejected because it contains $Word only, or content rejected because $Word is used in conjunction with a hashtag?

Who curates the list of $Words?

Then, a further question because of "Create a global default text filter to help prevent the use of racist and abusive language (Issue #31182)"

What language will the "global default text filter" list be kept in?

What becomes of other languages, which can be equally problematic on their own or in translation?

cc @ariadne

Emelia 👸🏻

@ariadne do you know where I can find information on pleroma's perceptual hashing capabilities?

I've googled and looked through their source code but can't find anything yet, I did see there's a NSFW server, but couldn't find it's code..

Emelia 👸🏻

@FinchHaven @ariadne I think a lot of what's been said is based on the MRF capability, where (as I understand it) you run additional elixir code in your server, much like a plugin system.

MRF has been deemed dangerous by some because it allowed rewriting audience & text on posts & publishing Flag activities as Notes — i.e., you can use it to out people who report others & rewrite posts to make it look like someone has said something they haven't.

Basically, great power, great responsibility.

Ariadne Conill 🐰:therian:

@thisismissem @FinchHaven nothing stops me from patching mastodon to do these things.

Emelia 👸🏻

@FinchHaven @ariadne so when it comes to filtering instance wide, it ends up being "whatever your admin decides so you need to 100% trust them not to do bad things with the power they have.

I think for Mastodon, if I were to implement content filtering at instance level, I'd want a public log of actions related to be available to users on the server.

But the drop message versus said a rejection isn't yet worked out at ActivityPub level yet, afaik

Emelia 👸🏻

@ariadne @FinchHaven no, but it does create some barrier to misuse, which is arguably better than none.. it's all a balancing act.

Ariadne Conill 🐰:therian:

@thisismissem @FinchHaven there is zero difference between someone publishing a patch to mastodon which does this and an MRF policy.

Ariadne Conill 🐰:therian:

@thisismissem @FinchHaven nothing about ActivityPub blocks anyone from adding a transparency log to MRF, or adding an MRF-like facility to Mastodon.

this is just absurd.

Ariadne Conill 🐰:therian:

@thisismissem @FinchHaven like, respectfully, i think you all need to focus on why people like @KimCrayton1 are using Mastodon with basically *zero* mitigations to deal with trivial abuse instead of whether or not MRF is too powerful for your liking.

when Kim is no longer being crapflooded with racial slurs and threats, things that could be *trivially mitigated with MRF policies*, then maybe you can talk shit about MRF.

⏣ (nut)

@thisismissem @FinchHaven @ariadne you can have MRF policies publicly listed and if an instance tampers more than they promise, it creates a (dis)reputation

also i might be wrong but i think public log of applied actions would be trivial compared to MRF itself

Ariadne Conill 🐰:therian:

@xarvos @thisismissem @FinchHaven yes, precisely. it is a non-issue in practice with 6 years of MRF.

Tom Bellin :picardfacepalm:

@ariadne @spacehobo @andrew I was just pondering about how the challenge of instance moderation increases exponentially with the ease of setting up a federated server. And how the critical lack of sufficient tools for community moderation is actually being masked by how finicky it appears to be to set up a mastodon instance.

(I lucked into one of the unicorn instances of the fediverse apparently)

Ariadne Conill 🐰:therian:

@tob @spacehobo @andrew oh yes, the difficulty of setting up mastodon has absolutely been pitched to me before as a "safety feature"

Andrew Dunham

@ariadne @thisismissem @FinchHaven Also, respectfully: it's not even particularly difficult to patch Mastodon to do this! I'm not going to draw the rest of the owl, but it took me about five minutes to find the `process_audience` function and `visibility_from_audience` functions under `ActivityPub::Activity::[...]`; between that and patching `Status.create`, I'm pretty sure I could figure out a way to make all non-public statuses from a specific instance, user, etc. be public instead of private. And I wouldn't call myself a particularly proficient Ruby developer, either.

In my personal opinion, the harm that is currently being caused by not having flexible, extensible, and powerful moderation tooling is *vastly* outweighed by the harm that could be caused by making it easier for instance admins to do something that they're already able to do.

Ariadne Conill 🐰:therian:

@andrew @thisismissem @FinchHaven yeah exactly.

sure, a moderation tooling framework can be abused to tamper with messages in a way that is anti-social. no doubt about it. moderation tooling has to be powerful in order to do its job.

but that reality does not justify the current *nothing* that mastodon developers are doing about anti-abuse since forever.