Lots of great updates in the latest Mastodon release, but I am particularly excited about this.
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Stefan Bohacekreplied to Stefan Bohacek last edited by
@raphael @Alien_Sunset @deadsuperhero It just seems like, asking people to pay for things that they've been used to getting for free for so long is an uphill battle, with most seemingly willing to compromise for a subpar experience, or seek out free alternatives.
Or just get left out from the public discourse.
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Raphael Lullisreplied to Stefan Bohacek last edited by
@stefan @Alien_Sunset @deadsuperhero
We can not use Twitter Blue conversion rates or anything else based on the "freemium" model if the comparison is against a service that does not have a free tier, but we can prove that Americans (on average) do pay for services when they can not get it for free.
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Stefan Bohacekreplied to Raphael Lullis last edited by
@raphael @Alien_Sunset @deadsuperhero Right. And fair enough.
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@stefan @raphael @deadsuperhero Are there any servers out there with an ad-supported model right now?
I've got nothing against it, and maybe it's because I have no frame of reference for how profitable any sort of ad is in 2024- but do non-invasive/non-targeted ads actually make a reasonable amount of money?
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@tom @raphael @deadsuperhero I don't know about any.
I know that https://500.social is one example of a paid instance, but that's done via Patreon.
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Using a predatory practice as an example of something to aim for or to prove that people being forced to pay for one service can ‘obviously’ pay for *another* service on top of it is not as convincing as you think
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Well, yeah, but once again, paywalling such a necessary thing like social media seems kinda … sleezy, yeah, the people who can afford it will pay, and so will a portion of people who technically *cant* afford it but still need it, and… what? The rest can go wither and die? (Hyperbolic, yes, but my point stands)
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@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
What is predatory about streaming services?
You have the full right to not like them, but to claim that people are simply paying out of coercion is absurd. When piracy is still an alternative (and arguably even morally justified), it's hard not to see how people pay for these services because they value their convenience above all else.
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@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
> people who technically *cant* afford it but still need it, and… what?
Then we will have a secondary market which is not super attractive for the Surveillance Capitalism corporations and that can be served by secondary players: local libraries, schools... and yes, even ad-supported businesses, like a regional newspaper.
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Library run social media sites? SCHOOL run social media sites? On the tiny assed budgets that they are already forced to work with?
Are you on crack?
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Although it does raise an interesting possibility… socialised social media, much like healthcare is necessary for physical health and should also be something funded by everyone and managed by an “impartial” entity rather than one focused on profits perhaps social media should go a similar route….
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
There are several cities and iirc entire counties that have govt run internet providers (being a public necessity now adays, much like heat/power and water)
Could something similar work with say, government funding/grants for development and maintenance of activity pub services?
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@Alien_Sunset @raphael @deadsuperhero I'd be more than happy for my taxes to go towards that!
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@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
I think we can keep a healthy conversation without resorting to name calling.
And yes, I think that small *local* governments should be the ones with the responsibility to provide these services. If anything, it could work as a spotlight to them and strengthen their communities, and the federation model works extraordinarily well for that, it could even help for extra fundraising efforts.
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
While I just made a mini thread hypothesizing about government run activity pub.
I think that you don’t have a very good idea of how knowledge and resource poor most *local* small governments are. Something on the library or school level 100% could not run something like this. It would need to be on a much larger scale - state level at least, and it would HAVE to be well budgeted and overseen/regulated -
@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
You know what would be even worse than an Internet controlled by a handful of corporations? An Internet that is controlled by a large and powerful state.
I know how poorly funded these community services are, but wouldn't it be fair to say that the reason that they are so poorly funded is because they became synonymous with "something that only poor/destitute people use"?
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Ah you are one of those people who will trust some random tech bro with no accountability over elected officials and well trained regulatory officers.While yes, part of the issue with underfunded libraries is how people view them, but adding MORE to their burden without them already having the money and infrastructure in place is just going to end in disaster…
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Raphael Lullisreplied to Raphael Lullis last edited by
@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
Local libraries are poorly funded because people just think that paying for the convenience of commercial services is better. This gets exploited by corporations who offer "free" things and hide the true cost because they can profit from the data.
The idea is to flip this on its head. Make the cost explicit. Get local communities to figure out the best way to support themselves. Give them back agency and stop waiting for magical solutions from above.
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Raphael Lullisreplied to Raphael Lullis last edited by
@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
It might even be that whatever system will have carved out exemptions. But these exemptions and designs should come bottom up, and not controlled by some bureaucrat in Washington who has no real Skin in the Game.
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@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
> Ah you are one of those people who will trust some random tech bro
That's strike 2. Can you please stop creating strawmen and assume good intentions?
