I feel like every time there's new drama about ashten/woem.men I go through the same cycle

Three Cats in a Trenchcoat :nc_t: :nc_m: (Chloe)

I feel like every time there's new drama about ashten/woem.men I go through the same cycle

new accusation drops "surely thats not true, it's probably just ashten getting targeted"
evidence starts circulating "ok, maybe this is worth looking into, but I'll keep my distance"
a day or so passes "ok maybe I should stay away from ashten, she doesn't seem to be as good as I originally thought"
after a few weeks to months "hmm, nothings happened with ashten lately, maybe I'll give her another chance"

I usually don't like to jump to conclusions, and when all of a sudden one of your acquaintances gets accused of something major like this it can be hard to believe, especially if you don't know them super closely. But this time I think I've had enough. Usually I'd just go, "oh it doesn't really involve me, whatever, just maybe stay away from ashten" but now I've seen that some of my mutuals have been affected by ashten's poor choices, in some exceedingly negative ways, that I should have seen earlier (and I'm sorry for that).

In any case, I feel like a lot of the problems with woem.men are simply problems with ashten that unfortunately end up affecting the entire site. I have almost never heard an actual complaint about the users of woem.men, except for the groomers that ashten evidently enabled.

I really do wonder if it would be better for the woem.men community as a whole if ashten stepped down from running woem.men and was no longer the "face" of woem.men.

I know she has said she doesn't want to because "it's what's best for the community" but what's best for the community is for them to have a safe place that isn't constantly being thrown around because of her actions. Having an enabler as the head of the instance will not make the problems go away. There needs to be a major change in leadership or we're just going to keep having these problems.

- posted by Chloe

Smolcasm

@Chloe I can agree, at least, that it would be in Ashten's best interest to entrust the head admin position to someone else (who, though?) of her own volition and, I think, for her own sake; while clearly capable of balancing that power and responsibility well when nothing's amiss, the pressure she's under in the face of dealing with abusers and accusations is evidently not good for her or those in her charge.

It's telling to me, though, that other moderators and the like seem to think it more convenient, perhaps, to address her in particular as a problem. It doesn't seem to matter what she has to say about what's going on. It doesn't seem to matter what her motives are, or what the context is. It doesn't seem to matter that pressuring her to give into their demands or be defederated, with no chance of appeal, might only cause her to double down - or, if it does, they're counting on it.

From where I'm standing, she looks to be a scapegoat.

pancake :butterfly_::neofox_lesbian:

@[email protected] @[email protected] that underestimates how many of these incidents were in some way initiated by ashten or directly related

[email protected]

@smolcasm @Chloe when someone repeatedly gets into controversy, repeatedly has grooming incidents, spends all day provoking people, and is always the thing that gets the instance in trouble, maybe it is actually her that's the problem. you can call it scapegoating but it looks an awful lot more like accurately identifying a toxic individual. maybe pressuring her to step down will cause her to double down, but it sure beats doing nothing and hoping the problem sorts itself out - everyone's tried that before with woem.men, every time there's an incident

pancake :butterfly_::neofox_lesbian:

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] Unfortunately this technique of being very defensive, claiming they "just need to talk", emotional displacement, and overall sealioning gives people wayyy too much fake credibility

Smolcasm

@natty @Chloe I'm well aware that she's exercised poor judgment in dealing with these incidents, to say the least - her repeated attempts at intercession in abusive relationships are certainly cause for concern. I believe her motivation to help abuse victims is genuine, but far exceeds her ability to do so, especially given the stresses involved.

Frankly, she just isn't as well-equipped for that sort of thing as she thinks she is; I hope that is not as uncharitable for me to say as it may sound, because I think the salient point here is not the lack in her own ability but the gravity, complexity, and danger of what she means to do.

I understand that some may see these impending blocks as an intervention, of sorts, but I just can't agree that this is the best way to handle this. I fear this will only serve to further isolate her, weakening her support system when we should be trying to pull her back from the brink in a less adversarial way.

pancake :butterfly_::neofox_lesbian:

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] We're here because ashten didn't accept responsibility in any of these events for one reason or another; and did the bare minimum to not get called out

Amber 🌸

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] I honestly don’t know anyone who would want to associate themselves with that place. I don’t know what the best action is, but I do know there’s a fucking problem and we can’t just continue pretending there’s not. People are getting seriously hurt and that’s not okay.

Amber 🌸

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] To be blunt, she alienated everyone that would have stepped up for the task. It’s not my problem. I’m distressed over the users who had to find out this way and who are struggling to grasp the situation.

pancake :butterfly_::neofox_lesbian:

@[email protected] @[email protected] Unfortunately, I don't think there's much we can do to let her reform while letting her get away with her current behavior

If she wants to grow from this, she will have to commit to it herself, and we cannot do that for her.

Amber 🌸

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] the community sat and tried time and time again. I came into her life two weeks after Hanna, trying to help her make sense of everything. By pretending like she’s the scapegoat and the victim here I am repulsed. I spent months trying to help her, I’m muting this thread.

[evil] Saabria Nejem LLC :neocat_floof_flag_trans:

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] Ashten has repeatedly allowed people who have been abusive to others and some who have even ended up in jail over having CSAM. Ashten made excuses for all these people and allowed them to continue being around even after being aware otherwise... I wish I could say that she just is in bad proximity but she has allowed a young group of people and has an odd habit of having abusive people given safe spaces around minors while shunning people who are trying to actually keep things safe.

I wish I could stand up for her still but, her actions in allowing friends of mine be abused and almost trafficked, and then learning how her one partner encouraged her to be into young people and her defending another partner with CSAM on their phone.... it just, this happens so often that ignoring it is asking to invite trouble.