Barcelona

[merc@sh.itjust.works]

Switzerland is a tiny country, so it's no surprise that certain words are standardized.

[merc@sh.itjust.works]

i like it when people pronounce names correctly

How do you define "correctly"? Is "Munich" a correct way to pronounce that city in Germany, or is only Munchen acceptable? Or should it be "Minga" because that's how it's said in Bavarian?

[merc@sh.itjust.works]

Yes, Barcelona is a place that people have heard enough of the two versions to know the "strange" version that isn't natural to their language. But, what about Zaragoza? I doubt most English speakers would understand what you meant if you dropped the Castillian version of that into a sentence when speaking English.

Language isn’t prescriptivist

Of course not, that's why the names of places in English don't sound like the names used locally. If it were prescriptivist there would be no Munich, only Munchen. No Prague only Praha, no Geneva, only Genève. Only someone who doesn't understand how languages work would think that it's appropriate to say "Barcelona" with a "th" sound when speaking English.

[fushuan@lemm.ee]

The english Th sounds different from the spanish C. Source: spaniard.

It's similar though.

[blaze@sopuli.xyz]

[email protected]

[fushuan@lemm.ee]

For me is a matter of respect, I try to pronounce place names just as I try to pronounce names. If I say them wrong I feel like I'm disrespecting the locals.

If that makes me pretentious I'll be a petty bitch and mispronounce the names of the ones calling me so. Bastards.

[fushuan@lemm.ee]

Trilingual here, if it's clear that someone is trying to say it correctly (as would be said by anyone of the native language) even if they mispronounce it they get a pass.

If you come to my city and call it Saint Sebastien you are going to get very weird looks. If you call it San Sebastian or even better, Donostia, even mispronounced most local will smile because you are fucking trying.

Yes there are some phonemes that don't exist in other languages but it's clear when outsiders say them wrong while trying vs wrong and they don't bother to make a similar sound. It's about respect.

I would say Munchen since its how my German friends told me that should be said.

[monkrome@lemmy.world]

You said of course not and then ended with a prescriptivist point of view, you're lost mate.

[captnnmorgan@lemmy.world]

Mostly Spanish speakers, not from Spain though. I wasn't specifically talking about Barcelona, that's just what the meme is about.

[9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works]

serious question. is it pretentious to use the "real" name of a place instead of it's english name? i'm not talking about pronunciation, but when english people decide to come up with a completely different, name for foreign places

like, "i visited milano, torino, and firenze this summer" instead of "milan, turin, and florence"

[theoaktree@lemm.ee]

Well, I don't think most primarily-English-speaking people would appreciate you mentioning that you visited Baile Átha Cliathe this past summer instead of just saying Dublin.

[kolanaki@yiffit.net]

If I ever go to Istanbul, I'll be telling people I visited Constantinople.

[merc@sh.itjust.works]

I think you need to do some more research. Nothing I said was prescriptivist.

[merc@sh.itjust.works]

if it’s clear that someone is trying to say it correctly (as would be said by anyone of the native language) even if they mispronounce it they get a pass

It's not about "getting a pass", it's about what's the best way to say it for a given audience. In most cases, that's how the language you're currently speaking says the thing. If you're a Brit, in London, talking to another Brit about Zaragoza, you shouldn't pronounce it the way Castilian Spanish speakers would say it because the person you're talking to is not likely to recognize the name when spoken like that.

[merc@sh.itjust.works]

So, you have more respect for the people who live in a city, who are not part of the conversation, than you do for your conversational partner? That's weird, dude.

[warl0k3@lemmy.world]

Oh I'm aware. The grammar tribunal has many countries on its list.

[kanda@reddthat.com]

Yeah kinda because English speakers know it as Milan, Turin and Florence

[ourkaos@lemmy.today]

Does this mean I have to start calling Los Angeles "The City of Angels"?

[ai_toothbrush@lemmy.zip]

You could say the same thing in english in english because of the many dialects. I usually say place names in the local dialect except if its a language i speak and then you see how language is flexible becuase people who speak the same language as me say stuff differently.

[smeg@feddit.uk]

Byzantium, please!