I see a lot of the drama that is happening between people of color on the platform and the mastodon dev team.

Johannes Link

@polotek What about wrapping standard mastodon in an API-compatible proxy which allows moderation? It could make those efforts mostly independent from the core dev team. And it could also be picked up to integrate back into the core later.

✨easily traumatized nihilist✨

@joefox @polotek @pete the biggest red flag which outsiders should understand immediately to signal to a person of color that theres no conversation to be had is, a white person saying "i feel like youre excluding/making assumptions about me based on my skin color" (read: "reverse racism," etc.)

Anyone putting in minimal effort in 2024 needs to understand: there IS NO RACISM AGAINST WHITES. In a global system of white supremacy, its not possible for whites to be oppressed for their whiteness.

✨easily traumatized nihilist✨

@joefox @polotek @pete the comment about "what do i have to do to be good enough" is also p sketchy. Productive & equitable conversations with people of color, especially as they're actively experiencing marginalization & trying to find solutions, isn't some cool kids club to buy your way into with the right words & behaviors. Sometimes it's not even appropriate for a white person to participate at all. But if you do, you should at least kind of understand white supremacy on a basic level.

Marco Rogers

@jlink sounds great. You should get started.

Johannes Link

@polotek I'm an old white man. IMO it should be a community effort controlled by those who need it most. I'm happy to help.

Marco Rogers

@jlink I don't work on the project. You should talk to people who do.

A Wolf in Cheap Clothing

@[email protected]
Well this link will help https://joinfediverse.wiki/Instances

Pete🎸🎶🐍📽🎞☮🌍🙂😭

@itsmeholland @joefox @polotek

If I say, up front, "these are my credentials", they can be dismissed as not good enough. If I don't give my credentials I can be dismissed as not good enough, because of where I was born, and my skin pigmentation.

This is neo-racism.

The way to solve racism is not more racism.

I use the phrase "myth of race" based upon Robert Sussman's book which I have read, and the term "neo-racism" based upon Coleman Hughs' The End of Race Politics, which I have also read.

Matthew Loxton

@polotek
Growing the dev team by adding BIPoC members might help, but then how does one do that with such limited funding?

Matthew Loxton

@yisraeldov

OK, and do you have insights to offer on improving the current situation?

@polotek

Yisrael Dov :emacs: :nixos:

@mloxton @polotek Exposing specific cases is usually going to be the best thing.

What do you suggest?

Marco Rogers

@yisraeldov @mloxton what makes you say this is the "best thing"? For who exactly?

Marco Rogers

@mloxton help how?

Marco Rogers

@pete @itsmeholland @joefox it sounds like you're not actually willing to provide the information I asked for. Thanks anyway Pete. I wish you well on your journey of trying hard to understand. There are a lot of other books to read, so I'm sure you'll be fine. Cheers.

Marco Rogers

@AWolfInCheapClothing it doesn't. What next?

Yisrael Dov :emacs: :nixos:

@polotek @mloxton My experience with the huge amount of anti-semitisim on mastodon, is that the best solution has been to confront it publicly.

But I do know that when prejudice is considered acceptable, it is hard to do anything about it. I know that people on this thread want to discount the prejudice that I've dealt with, especially in the tech industry.

I'm happy to discuss more, but the people on your thread seem to attribute to me ulterior motives.

Marco Rogers

@yisraeldov @mloxton I don't read it that way. You just sound naive and incurious about why your simplistic way of viewing things hasn't actually succeeded at changing the world yet.

It sounds like it's based entirely on what you've personally seen and experienced. You might consider that there are quiet a lot of other people who are not you. And maybe they've experienced something different.

Yisrael Dov :emacs: :nixos:

@polotek @mloxton I'm curious about why you would think that. Both that I'm incurious or that I haven't seen much? Also what is simplistic? I'd like to understand more about exactly what your seeing and to hear, but if I ask questions I got accused of "sealioning" (new word for me).

That being said, I've experienced quite a bit. Happy to expand if needed.

Also, what is my "simplistic way of viewing the world?". I don't think I've expressed my world view.

Matthew Loxton

@polotek
My guess is that some of the racism becomes tangible because of elements in the structure and design of the app and configuration and policies implemented by the devs. Having more BIPoC people on those teams might help identify those elements and make changes that reduced the degree and depth of racism manifesting itself?

Marco Rogers

@yisraeldov @mloxton I didn't say you haven't seen much. I said there are a lot of people who are not you. And your stance seems to be based on what you yourself have seen and experienced. If you're saying you think you've seen enough to speak to the experience of people very different from you, then yes, I'm calling that naive.