The events of the last couple of days have shown me that many ‘nice’, not Republican people want to see where on the pecking order they can place immigrants.

Asta [AMP]

@[email protected] I can’t say I’m surprised to hear that people are doing this but it is very fucking disgusting that this is happening.

Elon is a ridiculous fucking sham of a person and all he does is exploit whatever, and whomever, he can. The fact that self-proclaimed leftists are immediately blaming the visa system instead of the guy who really sucks and makes a ton of problems for literally everyone on this goddamn planet is just… ugh. I’m sorry. I’ve been sick and am clearly in a bubble because I haven’t seen any of this. You, and every person in this goddamn country and elsewhere deserves none of this garbage.

Elon isn’t even pro immigration, he’s just pro exploitation. That’s it. For fuck’s sake.

Kavana Ramaswamy

@skinnylatte

Immigration is one of the "revealers" of supremacist ideology: people are progressive until it comes to being progressive about borders. A lot of the US left are doubling down on "educate our nationals first" to disagree with elon, while clinging on to the implicit desire to see US supremacy maintained; which is ironically the same reason Elon is giving for skills-based visas. Both are aimed at maintaining global hierarchies instead of dismantling them.

Adrianna Tan

@aud read this piece by RR and all the comments. There are a bunch of folks here who I would call RR Dems, who are exactly like this

Why the Muskrat is wrong about opening America to skilled workers from abroad

I refused to bow to industry pressure 30 years ago, and my reasons are as legitimate now as they were then.

(robertreich.substack.com)

Asta [AMP]

@[email protected] oh Jesus CHRIST

What a fucking load of garbage. God. That’s infuriating.

Asta [AMP]

@[email protected] “which side is right?”, he asks. NEITHER THEY BOTH SUCK EGGS. god.

Adrianna Tan

I have another friend who literally educates your best and brightest in a public school, and she probably has to leave because her school totally bungled her H-1B renewal and green card in an almost comedic fashion.

I know people from ‘good countries’ (the ones you say you want more immigrants from! Not brown or black people!) with advanced degrees who have gone through so much shit you can’t even imagine. Life-changing, overnight hair-greying degrees of experiences with the immigration system

Adrianna Tan

@kavana you got that right. It’s depressing.

Asta [AMP]

@[email protected]

Allowing many more skilled workers into the United States reduces any incentives on American business to invest in the American workforce. Why do so when they can get talent from abroad?

Allowing many more skilled workers into the U.S. also reduces the bargaining power of skilled workers already in America — and thereby reduces any incentive operating on other Americans to gain the skills for such jobs.

Jesus CHRIST how could anyone write such drivel. These are the fucking galaxy brains that have been running this shit show?

Why, pray tell, would allowing more skilled workers come in reduce the incentive to hire citizens? What’s the logic behind that? Does it have anything to do with, ohhhh, I dunno, them being easier to exploit?

And then he fucking leads into an argument “reducing the bargaining power” BUDDY. BUDDY MY DUDE. WHAT bargaining power? Bargaining power is not given, it is (rightfully) taken.

These assholes have eaten 99% of the goddamn pie and arguing over who gets the scraps. Fuck em.

Jesus Christ, this is the most asshole article I’ve read in a minute.

Adrianna Tan

@aud lol and I got to it by seeing people post here, agreeing with him

Prof. Catherine Flick

@skinnylatte not in the U.S. but I dealt with the UK immigration system for 15 years and even as a “good” immigrant (or so old guys at bus stops told me) it was a total nightmare and a constant cloud hanging over me. Finally got my citizenship this year and hope that will keep the Home Office off my back now, just awful. Can’t begin to think how hard it is for refugees or immigrants that don’t speak English etc. I always help immigrants if I can because my experience was so dreadful.

Len

@skinnylatte I've had to explain to a lot of US Americans how their immigration works, and is horrific to go through, and why, considering I am incredibly lucky and have several other options, we are going for those options instead. (Deadlines for the operating bodies that are respected by the operating bodies! Clear laws that are in readable format for everyone! Clear requirements that aren't buried three layers deep that you have to hope the local government peeps are familiar with and will let you do! No actual need for an excellent immigration lawyer!)

None of them had any idea that this was how it worked for /everyone/, not just "those" immigrants.

Adrianna Tan

I’ve now decided it’s probably unsafe to share any details about my immigration journey with anyone unless they are also immigrants. After all, I did read a ‘liberal’ say they should call ICE if they think that a H1B got a job over a ‘native American’. Who needs ICE when you have blue state fash?

Chances are they aren’t going to call ICE on a French or Swedish H-1B (these people exist too!)

Asta [AMP]

@[email protected] how can someone frame this as a “labor issue” and think about it for more than two seconds and not come to the conclusion that what we need is better support and protections for workers. Why would a business prefer an H1B holder? Is it because they’re more skilled? Let’s say yes for the sake of argument. Why are you then insisting it’s the role of business to train citizens with the necessary skills instead of, say, the fucking state!? Maybe we lack “skilled” workers because of issues like our terrible for profit education system! Maybe we lack “skilled” workers because our educational system actively discriminates against more than half the population! Or because companies are biased against hiring women and BIPOC and don’t think of them as skilled! Maybe we’d have more “skilled citizens” if some of systemic issues were worked on?

god. how was the this guy allowed near policy.

Adrianna Tan

@aud oh someone also told me that we should reduce H1Bs so ‘they bring caste discrimination over here’

Yes, that sucks, but you don’t know anything about that either

Ulrike Walter-Lipow

@skinnylatte Yup, I think it actually has been like that for a while. I see it not just in the US, the EU as well: the rhetoric about "illegal immigrants" takes it toll. People start to associate migration with criminality, they don't bother to educate themselves about the complicated rules that govern "legal" migration, they are thoroughly unfamiliar with the complexities and challenges migrants face, because that would disturb their ideas about good and bad ...

abominably comfy

@len I only live in the UK because when I was about to marry a Brit it was /possible/ (difficult, traumatic, expensive, dehumanizing, but possible) for me to move here.

It was completely impossible for him to move with me to the U.S. Even though he's white, he worked in tech, etc.

I had to explain this repeatedly to my parents and their friends (in a red area of a blue state).

@skinnylatte

Asta [AMP]

@[email protected] RIGHT!? Like yeaaaah I am pretty sure I know people that have experienced that kind of discrimination and I am pretty sure people saying that do not.

You know what a good little shield against that would be? Unions! Holding companies accountable for toxic workplaces! It’s not like companies and offices here don’t have an ass ton of bias already, god.

Jeff C. 🇺🇦

@skinnylatte For what it’s worth, as somebody who works in tech, I value my H1B colleagues and consider them a valuable addition to our country and economy.

That so-called liberals will toss them under the bus for partisan or protectionist reasons is disappointing, but not that surprising.

Adrianna Tan

@jeff thank you

Cassandrich

@skinnylatte @aud Fuck around & find out, Robert Reich.