Mastodon is financed by crowdfunding instead of venture capital not because we don't know that venture capital exists, not because we don't have bills to pay, and not because venture capital isn't willing to give money to new social media platforms.

Eugen Rochko

Mastodon is financed by crowdfunding instead of venture capital not because we don't know that venture capital exists, not because we don't have bills to pay, and not because venture capital isn't willing to give money to new social media platforms. VCs don't want a sustainable business, they want a big exit. Every VC-backed business is on a timer to deliver or die.

Wayne Myers

@Gargron To deliver *money*, and *not* the actual thing it was supposed to deliver. They should call it 'PC', not 'VC'. Poisoned Chalice.

Wysteria

@Gargron The Matrix ecosystem is still doing pretty well for itself despite Element being a VC-funded organization. I think you'd be surprised.

uexo

@wysteriary @Gargron Nah. The VC funding is exactly why I use #XMPP instead of #Matrix and #Mastodon instead of #Bluesky. We don't need VC funded startups to reinvent basic internet standards and trying to displace standards with their custom and incompatible protocols.

Mastodon Migration VOTED

@Gargron

Thank you Eugen.

Cdrik ⏚🌻

Suite à ce pouet du créateur de Mastodon ️

Avez-vous déjà donné un peu d'argent pour le projet Mastodon ?
J'avoue moi non, mais je vais le faire asap, en espérant qil y ait plusieurs solutions de paiement. J'utilise Masto quotidiennement.

Et vous ?

katzenberger

@Gargron

Stop pretending it's about "#crowdfunding", for you. You are expressly working on bringing #advertising to the #Fediverse, and the Mastodon instance that you run.

https://socialwebfoundation.org/mission/

Sgt Pépère

@Bristow_69
J'ai déjà donné au modérateur de mon instance. Pas au projet Mastodon en lui même. Le financement participatif est là pour financer l'hébergement et puis en parallèle les avancées techniques ou ce sont 2 choses séparées ?
@Zekovski

Cdrik ⏚🌻

@sgtpepere

Je pense que c'est pour payer les développeurs à temps plein, type @renchap , et l'hébergement des 2 instances mastodon.social et mastodon.online

@Zekovski

Renaud Chaput

@Bristow_69 @sgtpepere @Zekovski Oui la majeure partie du budget part dans les salaires des employés à temps plein (Eugen, 2 devs backend, 1 dev iOS, 1 devops…) et de freelances (dev Android, designer, moi…). On est une douzaine maintenant, plus quelques volontaires qui aident sur des aspects spécifiques : https://joinmastodon.org/about

Eugen Rochko

Side note, if you'd like us to help pay our bills for the 5 full-time employees and a number of freelancers we currently have working on developing Mastodon and bringing you new features, and potentially grow the team to do so even faster, there is a number of ways you can do so outlined on this page: https://joinmastodon.org/sponsors

William Pietri

@Gargron Having taken VC money for a startup, I want to confirm for others everything you've said. They promise big returns to their investors, but most startups fail, so they need the successful ones to make gobs of cash. Modest successes get pushed to take big risks until they get rich or die trying. And if they do win big, they'll be pushed to extract ever more cash, causing enshittification. That's the VC game, and Mastodon is smart not to play it.

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger @Gargron

I want to quote the section about financial viability for you, to make sure it's clear.

"We want the Fediverse to be financially viable
The Fediverse cannot thrive without people building clients or running providers. And to do those things, they need money. Whether that’s advertising supported, or funded by charities and non-profits, or based on paid-for services, or affiliate revenue, we are working to find ways that companies can do well in the Fediverse."

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger @Gargron I am on a co-op server, cosocial.ca. I think that's an awesome model. I also like SaaS services like masto.host.

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger @Gargron the goal of the Social Web Foundation is not to bring advertising to the Fediverse. That already exists; there are already fediverse-enabled services that use ads, and there are fediverse accounts that use the sponsored hashtag.

SWF want to help grow the Fediverse and improve the experience, including user safety and privacy, for everyone.

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger @Gargron let me know if you have any other questions about the SWF mission, projects, or team.

katzenberger

@evan

Thanks for quoting this in full, I believe it highlights my point better than I could do it myself.

I also believe that you are aware how the #Fediverse is already thriving without your attempts at commercialization, and your hosting of malicious actors like Meta as advisors of your foundation.

Let me know if you have any other questions about my assessment of the #SWF, e.g. of its attempt to increase "safety and privacy" (your words) by embracing the makers of #Facebook.

#fedipact

@Gargron

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger @Gargron I do have a question!

Have you thought about starting a competing org that is also working to grow the Fediverse, but doesn't have the faults you see in the Social Web Foundation or Mastodon GmbH?

There's one in Austria but not one in Germany afaik.

Fediverse Foundation

Foundation for the advancement of free social media

(fediverse.foundation)

katzenberger

@evan

I would certainly consider starting a competing org if somebody inside those orgs would, let's say, imply that criticism is a form of lèse-majesté, and imply that I should rather shut up and start my own org instead.

Gladly, there seems to be no way this is ever going to happen.

@Gargron

Evan Prodromou

@katzenberger criticism is definitely welcome; not my intent.

But I also think there's a lot of work to do on the Fediverse, and a lot of different approaches.

I'd love to have more orgs to refer people to.