Mastodon is financed by crowdfunding instead of venture capital not because we don't know that venture capital exists, not because we don't have bills to pay, and not because venture capital isn't willing to give money to new social media platforms.
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Side note, if you'd like us to help pay our bills for the 5 full-time employees and a number of freelancers we currently have working on developing Mastodon and bringing you new features, and potentially grow the team to do so even faster, there is a number of ways you can do so outlined on this page: https://joinmastodon.org/sponsors
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@Gargron Having taken VC money for a startup, I want to confirm for others everything you've said. They promise big returns to their investors, but most startups fail, so they need the successful ones to make gobs of cash. Modest successes get pushed to take big risks until they get rich or die trying. And if they do win big, they'll be pushed to extract ever more cash, causing enshittification. That's the VC game, and Mastodon is smart not to play it.
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I want to quote the section about financial viability for you, to make sure it's clear.
"We want the Fediverse to be financially viable
The Fediverse cannot thrive without people building clients or running providers. And to do those things, they need money. Whether that’s advertising supported, or funded by charities and non-profits, or based on paid-for services, or affiliate revenue, we are working to find ways that companies can do well in the Fediverse." -
Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@katzenberger @Gargron I am on a co-op server, cosocial.ca. I think that's an awesome model. I also like SaaS services like masto.host.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@katzenberger @Gargron the goal of the Social Web Foundation is not to bring advertising to the Fediverse. That already exists; there are already fediverse-enabled services that use ads, and there are fediverse accounts that use the sponsored hashtag.
SWF want to help grow the Fediverse and improve the experience, including user safety and privacy, for everyone.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@katzenberger @Gargron let me know if you have any other questions about the SWF mission, projects, or team.
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Thanks for quoting this in full, I believe it highlights my point better than I could do it myself.
I also believe that you are aware how the #Fediverse is already thriving without your attempts at commercialization, and your hosting of malicious actors like Meta as advisors of your foundation.
Let me know if you have any other questions about my assessment of the #SWF, e.g. of its attempt to increase "safety and privacy" (your words) by embracing the makers of #Facebook.
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@katzenberger @Gargron I do have a question!
Have you thought about starting a competing org that is also working to grow the Fediverse, but doesn't have the faults you see in the Social Web Foundation or Mastodon GmbH?
There's one in Austria but not one in Germany afaik.
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@katzenberger criticism is definitely welcome; not my intent.
But I also think there's a lot of work to do on the Fediverse, and a lot of different approaches.
I'd love to have more orgs to refer people to.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@katzenberger I have a last question to ask, which is: you said that Gargron was trying to bring advertising to the Fediverse, and pointed to the SWF mission page, implying that that's what we're trying to and that by being a supporter, that's what Mastodon wants, also.
I've told you that it's *not* our purpose. Will you keep saying that, regardless? And if so, what would it take for you to believe that it's not the case?
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I'd like to see people stewarding a standard abstaining from openly instrumentalizing the standardization process for their own agenda.
But then, I also see people posting things like "I’m going to continue doing the work I’ve done for the W3C and other ActivityPub projects: protocol refinement, documentation, meetings, speaking engagements, reports. But from here, I’ll be doing it with my SWF hat on."
And when people openly say what they are going to do, I believe them.
Which means, essentially, that I neither trust you, nor the foundation, and particularly not the "advisors" that foundation has chosen.
[2024-10-26 Update: I have been asked to link to the source for the quote, it is https://write.as/evanp/announcing-the-social-web-foundation]
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Yes, you have told me that was not your purpose.
Hence, let me re-quote what you have already quoted, from the web page where your foundation expressly states their "Mission". I'm going to highlight some parts, for your convenience:
»Whether that’s advertising supported, or funded by charities and non-profits, or based on paid-for services, or affiliate revenue, we are working to find ways that companies can do well in the Fediverse.«
I do not even have the number of legs that you obviously seem to be trying to pull here.
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@katzenberger so, why are you skipping over those other ways that Fediverse servers can be supported?
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@katzenberger I want to check: do you know that there are ad-supported Mastodon servers, and that there are ad-supported accounts?
Would it make you more comfortable if we didn't acknowledge ads as a way that Fediverse services are supported?
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Now that I have confronted you with a quote that expressly contradicts the claim you had made only minutes before, you're trying to deflect?
Sorry, this discussion is a waste of time. Have a good day.
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@katzenberger OK. Good luck in your work, and don't hesitate to reach out if you'd like to talk further.
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CM Harringtonreplied to William Pietri last edited by
@williampietri @Gargron Anything that requires an exit strategy in order to get money is a fucking scam.
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@katzenberger what do you think my agenda is? Based on what you know of me?
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by [email protected]
@katzenberger oh, and: I updated our mission page to better reflect what we plan to work on. Here's the new version of the paragraph that you objected to:
"We want the Fediverse to be sustainable
The Fediverse cannot thrive without those who build and maintain infrastructure like clients or servers, and social infrastructure like moderation. We want the people and organizations who provide those services to have the financial and mental health support they need for the long haul."
