Serious question: Is anyone making a list of where it may be possible to purchase a *new* car that isn't just spyware on wheels?

Cullen Thomas

@briankrebs this might be the only correct answer

Fringed Crow :battery_ok:

@briankrebs that's my plan. Any car from the 60's/70's without all this damn tech in it. Easy to work on, inexpensive parts.

I don't need my breaks failing because my low beam went out! /s

BrianKrebs

@Fringedcrow Also probably still works after an EMP. Just sayin

Sterling

@briankrebs
If it has a manual transmission you will have state-of-the-art theft deterrent.

VessOnSecurity

@briankrebs That's right up there with the question "where do I buy a printer these days that doesn't suck?".

Also, it's one of the reasons why I don't have a car.

Sorry for not being able to help.

Security Writer :verified: :donor:

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Newk

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Paul_IPv6

@briankrebs

"the area commute this morning became much more complicated as a malware attack caused all smart cars to play bumper cars with each other. there were further delays as self driving car removal vehicles were affected and joined in."

SF/cyberpunk is going to be joining satire sites like the onion in struggling to come up with ideas more bizarre than reality.

nerdwoman

@briankrebs We have two 2018 cars at our house because that's as recent as we could get something that wasn't entirely stealing our data. We still debated removing the sim card from the one car, but my mazda is real decent - physical controls for everything, carplay, and no tracking. Kind of amazing tbh. I'll be real upset when I have to upgrade in a decade.

Anyway, I suggest used cars, removing a sim, or maybe surrounding the head unit in foil or something as a faraday cage. It's such a dumpster fire.

David Penfold :verified:

@briankrebs A Toyota Hilux will still work after the heat death of the universe.

Alida Antonia

@briankrebs Do what I have. Buy a car that is 24 years old and keep it up. My 2000 RAV4 runs great. It’s pretty too.

Thrillho

@briankrebs Depending on the manufacturer you could probably go as new as mid-2010's. The mid level German Luxury sedans for example have been fairly slow to bring in "phone home" tech in their more basic trims.

I would also be curious to know how difficult it would be to find and remove the SIM card from some of the newer cars and what functionality do you lose once you do so.

Merospit

@briankrebs We got a car a few years ago that tried to upsell us on Apple Carplay. We chose the car because of being able to say no to that, and also it has an actual manual button remote. It still has a modem though...

I Thought I Saw A 2 :donor:

@briankrebs As long as it's a bitchin' one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v3CzvQ9e_w

nboynorge

@briankrebs I dont think it is possible, at least not in europe.
As far as I know cars *must* have a sim card. The excuse is to be able to find you in case of emergency.
Where the data goes, how much data it produces, how long it is stored... remains a mistery to me.

The other problem is people... they dont care.

I asked my provider to shut the "spyware" down (which is not possible, because of legal requirements). Then I asked if I was the only customer asking for it. The answer was "Yes, indeed. Actually a couple of people came to have it turned on in old models where it was optional." That way they can see how many "drive-points" the app gives you and how long one drove and other statistics. The guy showed me then his app with all his trips in the last 3 years.

"Now I know where you live" - I said.
"Google knows, too. Who cares?" was the answer.

ritual memory leak

@briankrebs

don't connect it to any networks?

possibly disable any antennas?

NosirrahSec 🏴‍☠️

@briankrebs Admit it. This was your goal knowing full well the answer was, "nothing is Cylon-proofed anymore."

David

@briankrebs @briankrebs Others have already covered the “no such product exists in the market” answer, so I’ll just throw some wishful thinking into the Ethernet winds and suggest to the #infosec / hacker community that it seems we’ll collectively need to create the @frameworkcomputer of cars. There’s enough knowledge and money among a sufficiently large subset of us, especially if enough late career professionals decide they’d rather not entrust the detailed time-series geolocation of their family to a company which can’t avoid recapitulating the vulnerabilities of the 90s, and to the data brokers to which it sells that data, and to the advertisers and governments and criminal organizations buying from those data brokers.

festivesoup

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James Tinmouth

@briankrebs I think it's time for a custom firmware. For cars and for TVs I feel.