New blog post: Be Seen on your Motorcycle
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@dHeinemann @SeaFury
It's interesting how fragmented the schemes for getting a motorbike license are, worldwide.Even within the EU the requirements are quite different among countries.
FWIW here in Spain:
- you can drive a 125cc, <15hp (11kW) bike without a bike license if you have a car license for three years.
- to ride bigger bikes you need a theory exam, then two riding tests in a closed track (accuracy and maneuver at speed) , then a riding test on the streets. (1/2) -
That gets you an A2 license (up to 48hp/35kW)
To get an unlimited license (A) you need two years experience with the A2 license, then a short course focused on safety (3 hours), then 4 hours practice on a closed track with a larger bike with an instructor , then 2 hours on the road. No exam.
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@mbpaz We have rough equivalents to the A and A2 licenses here in Australia. However, each state has slightly different requirements to get them, and different rules while on them.
For example, I think SeaFury couldn't exceed 90 km/hr for her first year. We don't have that requirement in Queensland. Instead, we have to ride under supervision at all times for our first three months.
I'm not sure what's worse, to be honest.
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thefathippyreplied to Dave Heinemann 🇦🇺 last edited by
[boomer] in my day...
It was a bit of a laugh. You could ride anything on your Ls. You could get booked on your Ls, but without a licence, you couldn't lose it. You could also lose your car or bike licence, and keep using the one you didn't lose.
Tests were a joke. 2 ueys, then I rode around the block & saw the tester running to watch me from another view. "Did you do anything wrong" "ummm... No?" (I forgot to indicate) "passed"
Loopholes all closed now!
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@thefathippy Limited to 80kmph!!! Until unrestricted. I’m still restricted until May next year. No point in gettting a fast bike until then… they need to overhaul the whole system. I could go to an “easy” state and get my license and transfer it to my home state license if I wanted to. @dHeinemann @mbpaz
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@mbpaz @dHeinemann @SeaFury that's interesting that you have the transition path from A2 to A. In the UK, to get an unrestricted A licence you have to do exactly the same tests (module 1, offroad slow riding/skills;/module 2: road ride) as you did for A2 but now on a bike with more than 47bhp.
You can't ride a bike with more than 47 bhp *before* you pass the A test, so you can't even ride to the examination (unless you ride a restricted bike there and remove the restrictor in the examination centre car park, but even then it's challenging to get insurance) unless you're riding under the supervision of an instructor. Gets expensive.
Its a bit of a mess and we usually blame it on the EU, so I'm rather amused that other countries in the EU don't have this silliness -
Daniel Barlow (bike)replied to Daniel Barlow (bike) last edited by@mbpaz @SeaFury @dHeinemann having said that, we do have "Direct Access", which means that if you're over 24 years old you can train for and take the full A licence directly without having to do A1 or A2 first. So it's mostly a discouragement to younger people who might want to take up motorcycling
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Here almost everyone does the riding tests -- and later, the required practice for the unrestricted license -- on a school motorcycle. Doing it on your own bike is too much of a hassle.
Can you restrict (to 47hp/35kW) any bike? Here it's only possible for bikes up to 95hp/70kW, and it means many models are artificially factory-limited to 95hp to make them an easier sell.
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@mbpaz @SeaFury @dHeinemann same here. The issue is that it probably costs ~ £1000 (or €1000, I think the exchange rate is roughly 1:1) for the five days of training to pass A2, then many (not all) riding schools will want you to pay again and go through the whole thing again for the A licence. Wouldn't be so much of an issue if it was easier to use your own bike
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@vroom @SeaFury @dHeinemann Apparently serious motorcycle accidents are concentrated in two age groups: ~20something year olds with a sports bike (call it too much enthusiasm), and males 45-49 years old with a large bike (call it mid-life crisis). Licensing paths are designed to make you ride a smaller bike before a bigger one, no matter your age, and hopefully calm you a bit. Do they work? I'm not sure.
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@vroom @SeaFury @dHeinemann Ouch. It's expensive here as well, but not as much (maybe half that) and usually includes more practice sessions.
At least, few people try the exam after just 5 classes, and when I took the closed circuit tests the pass rate was about 30%.Then the A (unrestricted) license is quite expensive for what it is... but if one thinks of it as "three hours hearing safety advice and then some tour on the open road and a free track day with a leased bike", it's even fun.
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Dave Heinemann 🇦🇺replied to thefathippy last edited by
@thefathippy It seems crazy how easy it used to be to get drivers licenses. Overall, I think the requirements and restrictions introduced since then are really positive and do a good job of preparing new drivers and riders.
The only loophole I know of is moving state. My buddy who got his restricted motorcycle license with me in Queensland. When he moved to Victoria, they upgraded his motorcycle license to unrestricted without having to wait 2 years or do another course.
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@SeaFury 80 km/hr?! And do you have to wait two years to get your unrestricted license?
That sounds insane to me. I like travelling, but I don't think I could do that with an 80 km/hr restriction. We have 110 km/hr highways here, and 80 km/hr on those wouldn't be safe.
What are the highway speed limits like in Tassie?
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@dHeinemann
I bought the Grom about 110 km away and rode it home on national roads. With its mighty 9hp and 0km in the odometer (break in is 600km or so) I could hardly exceed 80km/h and the travel was... well, interesting. -
@mbpaz We use the driving school motorcycles too. Bringing your own bike is usually allowed, but few people bother since it's a nuisance when you don't have a license to ride it there.
Some manufactures sell detuned motorcycles that are learner legal, but they can't exceed 660 cc and about 45 HP. Full-power bikes can never be converted to learner-legal status, even if they are detuned to meet the requirements. It's a nuisance.
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@mbpaz Yep, it costs about $1,000 AUD ($680 USD) to get enough training to ride unsupervised. Then around another $1,000 AUD for basic protective gear, then maybe $3,000-5,000 for a cheap used motorcycle.
The up-front costs of getting into motorcycling are a high barrier to entry for a lot of people.
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@mbpaz That was exactly my experience when I took my Grom on a 400 km road trip on the national highway. The Grom's max speed is about 96 km/hr, but between the high wind speeds and gear I packed, I was doing more like 80 km/hr and redlining it the whole way.
This highway had a 100 km/hr speed limit, so it was a bit sketchy. Afterward, I decided I'd never take the Grom on the 110 km/hr highways.
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@mbpaz @vroom @SeaFury @dHeinemann
No. They must appear on an approved list of bikes. Max capacity 660cc, max power to weight 150kW per tonne, ebikes up to 25kW. No mods, even if they don't make the bike exceed power to weight (eh, Dave...)
NSW page, supposedly national rules, has link to "the list":
Approved motorcycles for learner and provisional riders
Planning to get your rider licence? Make sure you know what you're legally allowed to ride as a learner, P1 or P2 provisional rider.
NSW Government (www.nsw.gov.au)
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Dave Heinemann 🇦🇺replied to thefathippy last edited by
@thefathippy I've noticed that the lists vary between state, and can also be woefully incomplete.
For example, all Royal Enfield bikes meet the requirements, and are sold as learner approved. Yet no new Royal Enfield bikes have been added to the Queensland list in the last six years. I think that's nine missing bikes.
It actually put me off buying a Royal Enfield when I was a total beginner because I couldn't confirm whether they were actually learner legal.