big question that's been popping through my head recently is:
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@zkat @janl @KevinMarks just based on my own experience and comfort level with data models, I found myself wanting it pretty quickly in my little project last night. But I'm still trying to keep perspective and resist the urge to overcomplicate.
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@zkat @janl @KevinMarks backbone was good actually. I will fight about that.
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Tuxedo Wa-Kamenreplied to Kat Marchán 🐈 last edited by
I would argue that there are some "intuitively uncomfortable" parts in web development.
Like the fact that you have to copy/paste your basic HTML structure across all files, instead of e.g. importing it like one would do in any programming language.
So the next "obvious" step for a developer is likely to look at some tooling, maybe just an SSG.
At which point the whole HTML stuff becomes a build-time asset (so to speak).
And looking at three different "languages" (HTML, CSS, JS/TS), the obvious (developer) question would be: Why can't we simply have one syntax instead of three?
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Mx. Aria Stewartreplied to Marco Rogers last edited by
@polotek @zkat @janl @KevinMarks I keep thinking that the inability for the form data model to represent the basic JSON types and have any nesting at all short of naming conventions has always been the achilles heel. So much impedance mismatch in having things become flat lists. Anything involving client-driven repetition ends up frustrating.
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Marco Rogersreplied to Mx. Aria Stewart last edited by
@aredridel @zkat @janl @KevinMarks yeah it's pretty weird considering that you get logical nesting for free in html. I can see it both ways though. Lots of room to shoot yourself in the foot.
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@polotek @aredridel @janl @KevinMarks relevant: @slightlyoff just linked me to https://github.com/toolkitchen/mdv and ooooooh aaaaahhhh
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@zkat We assume that because someone is a competent developer that they are also a competent teacher.
Unfortunately, bootcamps killed that concept dead. Teaching is seen as a step to getting famous in the field.
There is so much behind teaching well, backed by a hundred years of research in learning. But the web community has ignored all of these best practices, never thinking to apply them to make effective learning experiences. We are expected to struggle. It doesn't have to be this way.
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@zkat @aredridel @janl @KevinMarks @slightlyoff this certainly enters framework territory. But it takes an html-first approach, which is what we want I guess.
This sort of gets away from progressive enhancement though. Without js, you don't see anything rendered. You'd have to combine this approach with some others.
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@zkat @aredridel @janl @KevinMarks @slightlyoff I don't know. Another thing I'm still chewing on is the difference between data-binding and explicitly rerendering the UI. Sometimes you want to control when rendering will happen rather than it being automatic.
But maybe that's out scope of the discussion for now.
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@wakame @zkat 'Why can't we simply have one syntax instead of three?' On the one hand: because W3C compartmentalizes and at the same time builds things on top of things to make a 'stack'. But on the other hand: ' I just kinda have a bunch of lego blocks that got dumped in front of me;' it is not really a 'stack' at all, more like a disingenuous pile.