Honestly, if you’re in the US, please vote.

firebreathingduck

"it is about moving in a direction"

"a" direction, not "an acceptable" direction. I'm not talking about heading towards perfect, I'm talking about heading any way other than exactly where the people running the DNC want to go.

"You'll do exactly what we want, the way we want it, or leave."

That's impotence. 24 years of the party walking rightwards while my primary votes go to people that get crushed and my general election votes get good judges (yay!) and 800 billion dollar military budgets, drone strikes, and genocides. Year, after year, after year, after year.

Keep telling me to stay the course, it will magically fix things. The same thing I heard in 2012. 2016. 2020.

Maybe you're the DNC bot.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@firebreathingduck @fiberologist @gwm @benroyce @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut
To clarify, the argument that we are making, and said "we" includes most Muslim/Palestinian groups, is not simply that Trump would be worse, but that Harris presents us an actual path to ending this: she has repeatedly voiced support for a ceasefire, repeatedly pressured Biden to take a stronger stance on this, and is one of the main voices in the administration's support for food and medical aid. Note that Biden has repeatedly set up negotiations, and gave Netanyahu a 30-day ultimatum on significant de-escalation 15 days ago.

So no, while they aren't as aggressive as many of us would like, I would not say they are pro genocide. They are, in the words of many palestinians, "our only hope".

...and if you don't want to listen to a queer and disabled person begging you to stop throwing us under the bus and vote for Kamala Harris, have some actual Palestinian groups...

Just a moment...

(znetwork.org)

Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote

@firebreathingduck

if #voting participation were higher i would agree with you

but it isn't

people who do not #vote are responsible for the #democrats' shift right

your entire shtick is "people don't vote so the democrats move right so i won't vote either, that will fix it"

🤪

luckily #trump is putting a fire in our bellies, and participation is going up

and it will be on them we finally get #progress

it won't be on you

you'll whine and achieve nothing

thanks for that, impotent

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@spieldings
No, @Gargron means the candidate and surrounding people literally giving speeches about how "democracy dies here", that wants to do a multitude of crazy things, which not only include scaling back the democracy, but also going after free speech itself, and pretty commonly move to targeting minorities with crazy misinformation.

He's talking about the person whose own generals and original staff have all signed letters repeatedly saying that he is a fascist and a threat to the country itself.

firebreathingduck

@Raccoon @fiberologist @gwm @benroyce @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut

Again, I voted for Harris (by mail), and Biden, and Clinton, and Obama, and Kerry, and Gore.

But I absolutely do not trust any claims that Harris will do better with respect to the Palestinian people. The timing is suspect - the Biden Administration has been sending weapons as recently as September. Now that the Palestinian genocide issue might affect the election, suddenly the people defending Israel against UN Security Council resolutions, pushing for censorship of anti-IDF media, and sending 17.9 billion in military aid for the purpose of slaughtering Palestinians suddenly grew a conscience? Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

I would absolutely love to be wrong. It would be the best thing that happened in the world in the past decade if Biden or Harris follow through and pressure Israel to stop. If it happens, I will be celebrating from the rooftops - and voting for Harris again next time. You have my word (for what that's worth).

But I'm 90% sure Biden and Harris will give speeches about humanitarian concerns and then send Israel more weapons.

firebreathingduck

@benroyce

I never said "not voting". I agree that "not voting" is pointless. I said voting third party. Or writing in candidates. That's what sends the message that voters are engaged but unsatisfied by the DNC's march to the right.

(Again, for anyone jumping into the thread late - I voted by mail for Harris. I'm talking about the future.)

Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote

@firebreathingduck @Raccoon @fiberologist @gwm @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut

"But I absolutely do not trust any claims that Harris will do better with respect to the Palestinian people."

i stopped reading here

harris wants a cease fire

trump wants to build hotels on dead palestinians

are you really that daft?

firebreathingduck

@benroyce @Raccoon @fiberologist @gwm @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut

Harris says she wants a cease fire *now*, right before election day, but without needing to prove she intends to follow through.

And if you're going to continue with the "I stopped reading here", we're done.

Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote

@firebreathingduck @Raccoon @fiberologist @gwm @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut

then we're done

because you're at "i know what harris said but i don't trust her" which distrustful bullshit. you have a problem and you are no help to what you say you care about

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@firebreathingduck @fiberologist @gwm @benroyce @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut
> "The timing is suspect"

Kamala Harris was calling for a ceasefire in 2023, LONG before it became an issue in a close election. We found out as long ago as April that Biden had actually been quietly overriding Netanyahu's demands for larger weapons: we know that because Netanyahu himself threw a public tantrum over it. When Netanyahu was invited by Republicans to speak before Congress, two-thirds of Democrats boycotted in protest of his regime's War Crimes. Rashida Tlaib, the ONLY Palestinian-American in congress showed up to hold up a sign in the chamber and brought with her a Palestinian who works for the US branch of UNRWA. That aid worker, Hani Almadhoun later wrote that “The only person that reached out while my family was being genocided was Vice President Kamala Harris.”

EVERYONE who is on the fence over the Gaza thing should read what he had to say...
https://zeteo.com/p/kamala-only-official-to-call-palestinian-america

Wickergaanks regretfully

@benroyce @Raccoon @firebreathingduck @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut @fiberologist @gwm So bibi will send mossad to help trutru stage the coup?

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@Kierkegaanks @benroyce @firebreathingduck @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut @fiberologist @gwm
...what?

Wickergaanks regretfully

@Raccoon @baconandcoconut @benroyce @gwm @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @firebreathingduck Bibi is every bit the psychopath as tfg and wouldn’t hesitate to play cia-does-south-america to avoid harris if he can get away with it

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@benroyce @firebreathingduck @fiberologist @gwm @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut
Ben, recognize that this person has already voted for Harris. We don't need to convince them to do that.

It's ok to be critical of Harris, it's ok to feel like she's not there when it comes to an issue, the main thing is that people realize that she really IS our only hope for peace in the Middle East (which includes getting those hostages back and ending the situation that gave rise to Hamas), and go VOTE FOR HER AND THE DEMOCRATS.

They can be as begrudging as they want as long as they don't throw the country under the bus for zero gain.

Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote

@Kierkegaanks @Raccoon @baconandcoconut @gwm @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @firebreathingduck

true but the argument we're making in this thread is "vote harris please" not "netanyahu is a piece of shit" which is true but off the grid in this thread

jz.tusk

@firebreathingduck @benroyce

Voting that way in Dem primaries sends that message.

I'm not a Bernie guy, but I'd argue that Bernie guys/gals/folk did move the D's left by their participation in 2016 primaries, and the 2020 Biden administration was more to the left because of that.

Voting that way in November main elections is cutting off your head because of a zit on your nose.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@benroyce @Kierkegaanks @baconandcoconut @gwm @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36 @firebreathingduck
Trump and his allies, including Netanyahu, are going to do what they can to get him elected, and many of them are willing to use all sorts of violence to force it, but I don't think Netanyahu would want the situation of the US government becoming so unstable it can't defend him against Iran anymore. (Or maybe he would: he is literally insane)

Harris will be an opposition to Netanyahu's policies, and he is definitely aware and reacting, but I don't think his influence goes as far as people say it does.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@firebreathingduck @benroyce @fiberologist @gwm @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut
> "Harris says she wants a cease fire *now*, right before election day, but without needing to prove she intends to follow through."

I know I already said this, but to be clear, it isn't "now": she's been saying this in public speeches for the past year without anyone reporting on it, and the "proof" offered is that Netanyahu publicly threw a tantrum where he said that Biden was withholding munitions and making demands. It's not a new policy, or a hollow claim, just not as aggressive as we'd like.

jz.tusk

@firebreathingduck @benroyce

Oh, also: You not voting for the Dem candidates in November gives Liz Chaney more of a voice in the direction of the Democratic party than you. As the kids say, weird flex on your part.

(And if you're thinking of going the "democrats are already more aligned with Liz Chaney" route, either you are very, very left, or lying for dramatic effect.)

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@jztusk @firebreathingduck @benroyce
Non-participation by the "Left" is what's moving the Democrat party to the right. I worked in politics for a while, and I had multiple candidates tell me that they would push for more policies the "Left" if they thought they could get away with it, but they'd seen other politicians attempt that and fail so many times that it wasn't considered viable. What IS viable is getting moderate Republican voters to decide you're not a threat to whatever issue they're concerned about, which is why Harris and Walz keep talking about how they own guns.

Conversely, neo-nazis always vote, regardless of how non-racist their candidate is, and that has put the Republicans squarely in their pocket.

And if we don't win this election, we may not get another shot at turning things away from Conservative Authoritarianism. We need to make changes to make third-party candidates viable, but we need Harris to win this one to do that.