Anyone in the mood to talk metrics?
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Anyone in the mood to talk metrics? The boilingsteam report shows Fedora growing over 10% for the first time, right around when #bazzite is popping off.
OS Stats are such a mess because it ends up becoming a marketing decision. So how can we measure Bazzite growth while ensuring that they're correctly counted as #fedora because that's important.
So Kyle and I bashed our heads together and settled on (FROM blah) appended as the fancier name.
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Timothée Ravierreplied to Jorge Castro on last edited by
@jorge @kylegospo @mattdm @matthartley @Cfkschaller I would use a different variant name but keep the Fedora ID in os-release. That would let us distinguish Universal Blue systems reporting in count me stats.
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Timothée Ravierreplied to Timothée Ravier on last edited by
@jorge @kylegospo @mattdm @matthartley @Cfkschaller Ah, reading again, now I get it. I don't remember which fields Steam takes into account for the stats.
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Matthew Millerreplied to Timothée Ravier on last edited by
@siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller
Anyone using the Steam Flatpak will just show up as Flatpak Runtime, I believe.
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Matthew Millerreplied to Matthew Miller on last edited by
@siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller
But leaving Flatpak as a corner case for now...
One idea is to introduce `SUBVARIANT` and `SUBVARIANT_ID`.
But, what I'd _really_ like is for this to be cumulative with bootc layers. I'm not sure how exactly that would work (bootc maybe would need to be specially aware?), but I'd like some fields to show the top layer only (name, support info, etc) and others to become _ordered lists_ — like VARIANT and VARIANT_ID.
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Adam Williamson :fedora:replied to Matthew Miller on last edited by
@mattdm
We already used the term "subvariant". In composes, Spins and Labs are variants, e.g. KDE, Xfce, or Electronics_Lab is the subvariant. The term is canonicalized in productmd and pungi.
@siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller -
Matthew Millerreplied to Adam Williamson :fedora: on last edited by
@adamw @siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller
Naming things is hard! Those things _are_ variants in os-release terminology.
But, wait, we have a compose-level distinction between "spin" and "lab"?
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Adam Williamson :fedora:replied to Matthew Miller on last edited by
@mattdm @siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller yup. https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/rawhide/Fedora-Rawhide-20240803.n.0/compose/Labs/ , https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/rawhide/Fedora-Rawhide-20240803.n.0/compose/Spins/ . The distinction seems to be pretty arbitrary, I never entirely understood it.
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David :gnome: :silverblue:replied to Adam Williamson :fedora: on last edited by
@adamw @mattdm @siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller Looking at them Spins seem to be about the Desktop Environment and Labs seem to be for a particular purpose
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Matthew Millerreplied to David :gnome: :silverblue: on last edited by
@dperson @adamw @siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller
Yes, that is what the distinction was. But there never was a _compose_ difference that I know of.
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Matthew Millerreplied to Matthew Miller on last edited by
@dperson @adamw @siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller
The reason for the presentation difference was: we didn't want popular desktop spins like KDE and Xfce to be hard to find in a long list of options. This was part of the 2014 getfedora.org "brochure" website.
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Timothée Ravierreplied to Matthew Miller on last edited by
@mattdm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller Bazzite does not use the Steam Flatpak if I'm not mistaken.
You can also change the content of os-release arbitrarily in container layers. The hard thing is to make it recognized and correctly grouped in Steam stats (and elsewhere).
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Matthew Millerreplied to Timothée Ravier on last edited by
@siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller
> You can also change the content of os-release arbitrarily in container layers. The hard thing is to make it recognized and correctly grouped in Steam stats (and elsewhere).
... and for that we need a standard.
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Timothée Ravierreplied to Matthew Miller on last edited by
@mattdm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller Well, ID_LIKE & VARIANT & VARIANT_ID are already part of the existing standard: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/os-release.html
But I don't know how Steam & others interpret those fields.
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Matthew Millerreplied to Timothée Ravier on last edited by
@siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller
But we're already using variant, and it'd be nice to be able properly label things based on that.
`ID_LIKE` could be useful, except it doesn't include `VARIENT` in any way, and also it's pretty vague what it means exactly. Is RHEL "like" Fedora Linux?
I'd be open to some kind of Fedora-ecosystem agreement on guidelines for when "like" should be used, but I think I'd need to talk to trademark lawyers first so I don't make them sad.
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Matthew Millerreplied to Matthew Miller on last edited by
@siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller
For the other things I'd like to see, maybe `ID_FROM` would be the right thing. Or, maybe `BOOTC_FROM`, although that seems like it could expose too much.
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Mike Rochefort :fedora:replied to Matthew Miller on last edited by
@mattdm @siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller It seems pretty clear to me...
"It should list identifiers of operating systems that are closely related to the local operating system in regards to packaging and programming interfaces ... An OS should generally only list other OS identifiers it itself is a derivative of, and not any OSes that are derived from it ... Operating systems should be listed in order of how closely the local operating system relates to the listed ones..."
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Mike Rochefort :fedora:replied to Mike Rochefort :fedora: on last edited by
@mattdm @siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller As for "is RHEL 'like' Fedora Linux?": Yes.
ID="rhel"
ID_LIKE="fedora"CentOS is the odd one out in this regards, as from a strictly interpreted standards POV, CentOS should have the above ID_LIKE and RHEL's should be "centos fedora". Instead we have the above and:
ID="centos"
ID_LIKE="rhel fedora" -
Matthew Millerreplied to Mike Rochefort :fedora: on last edited by
@omenos @siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller
That's a good point. We should do it that for 10.
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Mike Rochefort :fedora:replied to Matthew Miller on last edited by
@mattdm @siosm @jorge @kylegospo @matthartley @Cfkschaller @carlwgeorge @Conan_Kudo We actually had this conversation back in 2021 for CentOS, I having a feeling the opinions on the matter haven't changed.