I hear a lot of people talking about #Israel

immibis

@Raccoon isn't that exactly what they did to every section of the coast they ethnically cleansed so far?

jburd

@Raccoon

Palestinians in Gaza love Kamala Harris says DC-based establishment news outlet.

It's the "I see you, I hear you" part of the genocide that they like best.

jburd

@Raccoon

Kamala is working day and night for a ceasefire in Gaza. The Republicans will genocide way harder.

The Murderous Logistics of Israel’s Ethnic Cleansing Campaign in Northern Gaza

Eyewitnesses say the IDF is starving residents, targeting hospitals, bombing shelters, and murdering civilians in the streets

(www.dropsitenews.com)

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@immibis
Yes and no. I think it's very clear that Kamala Harris is going to opposed further settlement, and focus on rebuilding the area under some sort of Palestinian-led group, which is something she's already talking about.

Netanyahu would clearly like to have Israelis move in there though, and it sounds like the Trump family is seeing it as an opportunity to get some cheap real estate in the newly-claimed Israeli territory. They found a monetary interest in the destruction of Palestine, and therefore, will fully back it in ways we can't even imagine yet.

I would not be surprised if, in the first year of a Trump regime, we saw a demolition-by-bombing of everything in the Gaza Strip, followed by a map showing Israel as including all of Palestine and other contested land, with the official stance that Palestine never existed.

...which is why we need to stop talking about it in terms of what might not happen under Kamala Harris, and in terms of what WILL happen if Trump is elected.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@jbburd
> "Kamala is working day and night for a ceasefire in Gaza. The Republicans will genocide way harder."

Glad to see someone else acknowledging this!

There are so many people talking about not voting for Kamala Harris over this, I'm just so shocked and frustrated that they are basically throwing the Palestinians under a bus here.

I am definitely frustrated with the Biden administration's lack of aggression, but Israel IS our ally, and the idea of not voting for the person who keeps talking about pressuring them to make peace over the person who keeps complaining it's not going far enough seems insanely counterproductive to me.

jburd

@Raccoon

It was sarcasm. The genocide wouldn't be happening with the Biden/Harris admin's arms, funding, political cover, participation. The genocide is US policy. No one is buying the fake ceasefire public relations BS.

Shame on them.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@jbburd
Once again, y'all are shouting over actual Palestinians...

Palestinians in Gaza warm to Kamala Harris, prefer 'anyone over Trump'

An informal canvasing in Gaza showed the US vice president to be Palestinians' preferred choice as the next US president.

Al-Monitor: The Middle Eastʼs leading independent news source since 2012 (www.al-monitor.com)

Truth Sandwich 🇺🇸😱💀

@jbburd @Raccoon

I'm old enough to remember 10/7, when Sinwar's Hamas murdered over a thousand people in order to kick off this war.

You know, the war that they fully expected would have massive collateral damage, which they'd sell to antisemitic suckers like you as "genocide".

Sinwar's dead but the genocide lie persists thanks to people like you.

#politics #israel #hamas #genocide #GenocideJoe

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@TruthSandwich @jbburd
Just to be clear about something, while Sinwar and Hamas are obviously the instigators of this, having committed an inexcusable terrorist attack against hundreds of civilians, there is a strong argument for purpose for war crimes and at least the desire to commit genocide.

Netanyahu has played a huge part in this: he is very clearly not taking any steps to prevent massive civilian casualties, nor is he making any attempt to solve this diplomatically, because he is really monofocused at this point on eradicating the palestinians, something he has wanted to do since before he first came to power two decades ago. This is why he has less than a 20% approval rating and his own people are holding mass protests in the streets of Tel Aviv.

Netanyahu absolutely needs to be stopped, for the good of Israel if nothing else, and what I'm highlighting here is that a Harris without an election to worry about is likely oppose him more aggressively.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@jbburd
No one said they loved her. All I am saying is that, repeatedly, when we look at what actual Palestinians think American voters should do, the predominant answer is not "don't vote at all" it's "vote for whoever is more likely to push for peace."

The answer to that one is not just Harris, but an entire down ballot of Democrats: remember that the Republicans are not even debating this one, while pretty much all of the hardline support for an immediate ceasefire in Congress is coming from Democrats, 2/3rds of which boycotted netanyahu's recent speech, which Republicans gave a standing ovation to.

The lack of a "ceasefire now" candidate is incredibly frustrating, I agree, but that's a known problem with the two-party system, and this not a situation where both parties are the same.

I'm all for getting rid of the two-party system, and I think we are at the point we can do that, but that requires electing Kamala Harris so we still HAVE a democracy to expand like that.

immibis

@Raccoon I think both Harris and Trump will bomb the shit out of the Arab Muslims.

jburd

@Raccoon @[email protected]

Just to be clear, committing genocide is a decision. Israel and the US have decided to commit genocide.

It didn't start on Oct 7.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1766181245728292882.html

"Netanyahu absolutely needs to be stopped, for the good of Israel "
For the good of Israel? Not for the good of the two million+ people currently being eradicated by Israel? That's really sick.

Truth Sandwich 🇺🇸😱💀

@jbburd @Raccoon

Just to be clear, you're siding with terrorists. And Trump. But I repeat myself.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@immibis
Harris will continue to withhold large ammunitions and press for peace negotiations.

Trump will encourage Netanyahu to bomb them harder, simply because killing brown people makes him feel good.

Night and Day.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@jbburd
Note that I said "for the good of Israel if nothing else." That isn't a statement that him being stopped wouldn't be worth pursuing just for the people he's bombing, it's a statement that even his own people are not benefiting from this.

But yes, I have been following the israeli-palestinian conflict since before Netanyahu came to power, so yes, I understand perfectly well that this conflict has a hundred year history, and as I think I've said multiple times now, Netanyahu is the one who created a situation that led to the attack in the first place.

Stopping him is probably the biggest global priority right now, next to getting Putin out of Ukraine.

The only disagreement we have here seems to be that I am saying that getting Harris into office will be massively conducive to the cause of stopping this genocide campaign, while letting Trump get elected is basically a death sentence for all of Palestine: he wants them dead.

Hence why I am telling people to vote for Kamala Harris.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@jbburd
And let me throw down a purely pragmatic argument, because I keep hearing people justify throwing us under the bus over this: queer people, along with every other marginalized group, overwhelmingly want a ceasefire right now. We are willing to stand up for that, and we are willing to go after the people in power for that, be it through protests, letter campaigns, or directly running for office as many are already doing: there are a LOT of pro peace Democrats running this election.

If Trump gets elected, however, it will greatly diminish marginalized groups: ability to fight for anything. How can you expect us to fight for the Palestinians, who we have no chance of dissuading Trump and his Republicans from killing off, when we are already having to fight for our own existence?

People who say they won't vote for Kamala Harris over this are throwing their own allies under the bus, destroying their own movement by crippling its members.

Once again, we need to get out and vote for Kamala Harris.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@TruthSandwich @jbburd
Please don't conflate wanting less Palestinians to be killed with siding with Hamas.

The whole situation over there is completely out of control (except Netanyahu's), and I think it's very reasonable that tensions are high. Obviously the October 7th attack was a completely unjustified massacre of innocent civilians, and obviously that merits some sort of response. No one is arguing in favor of Hamas here.

What we are saying is that there has never been any reason to trust Netanyahu here, that he has been the main source of all the problems here for the past couple decades since he gained power, and that the civilian death toll and mast starvation is too high, and the fact that Netanyahu clearly wants that makes it amount to war crimes and genocide.

We can argue the specifics of how to handle that situation, and we can argue how much Netanyahu can be blamed for the existence of a terrorist group, but let's not call each other terrorists or genocidal, because none of us are that.