There has been a lot of understandable anguish about the election results in the German Länder Thüringen and Sachsen on Sunday.
-
@jon Well, that bit I can explain. Shortly before the fall of the Wall, Frankfurt was "boomtown" of the DDR. That's why a lot of the street layout, the infrastructure seems to big. A city with shoes it cannot fill anymore.
I grew up as mostly a teen in the city throughout the 90s and sometimes I wonder if constantly feeling lost was brought upon by this mismatch.
But yeah. These places are quiet and empty most of the time. There certainly is no mass migration of foreigners there.
But it also fosters this feeling of being 'forgotten'. And by now, the city is not only too large in a way, but all the shiny new stuff from 30 years ago is now 30 years old and rarely gets renewed because there is no money.
Which leads to the weird effect that the failure of late stage capitalism is visible. Contrary to general belief, most places that look dilapidated in Frankfurt are the remnants of the early 90s.
I could rant about that town forever...sorry.
-
-
There is a lot of misinformation floating around.
Another factor might be a sort of fear or submissiveness which was „learnt“ by older generations (and now is brought back as a result of Ru behaviour, bragging and propaganda) while not enough trust was built in NATO, etc.
Importantly, I don‘t think it‘s a mayority at all, rather a louder minority. And many young / educated have left the rural regions.
-
GreenSkyOverMe (Monika)replied to Niels Chr. Nielsen last edited by
@nichni You mean the terrible terrible 40 years when everybody had a job, nobody was homeless, rent and bread were cheap and daycare/preschool/kindergarten/after school care were free and guaranteed? Before the reunification when the entire economy collapsed and half the population became unemployed, rent went up by a factor of 10 while wages didn’t and we became free to travel but many didn’t have the money for it?
-
@jon The total emptiness of so much land surrounding the largest city of the European Union is still a baffling concept to me, considering most of the old West-Germany is so polycentric with a lot of medium-sized cities.
I do have to say, the emptiness and dying towns is also a phenomenon in the most western part of Rheinland-Pfalz, but it maybe doesn't feel so much as a time warp as on the pictures here. Maybe it is because the buildings in the west are generally newer then in the east, where so many old buildings remained because the regime was much more interested in building large new living quarters then renovating or replacing the old.
-
@jon
From my experience trying to repair the damage wrought by Soviet/Communist incompetence has four prongs.
1. job creation to stop or slow the exodus of young people to cities
2. improved more flexible vocational education to train workers for the jobs that are being created
then, but soon
3. improved public transportation to meet the needs of new businesses and workers and their families that (hopefully) are moving in
4. creation of low cost housing for families -
@jon Do you know how well Die PARTEI did there?
-
Riley S. Faelanreplied to Niels Chr. Nielsen last edited by
@nichni Most of the people in modern Formerly Eastern Germany are people whose parents made a decision to not move to Formerly West Germany a generation ago, within a few years of the Wall coming down. And for various reasons, of which the concentration of bad kind of small-town culture is one but not the only one, these Hero's Stories often don't have the people who left coming back and staying back, as has happened in some other formerly Eastern Block parts.
-
@poupou Except by the people who worked for the Apparatus.
And remember — East Germany had a ridiculously high rate of government to bureaucrats by the time the Wall came down. A lot of the jobs were sinecure jobs for political patronage, which meant, people whose standard of living dropped sharply once the Unification started to normalise the local buraucracy.
-
@kmetz The important difference is, in some places, when young ones leave, they see the world, learn stuff, and in ten or fifteen years, come back to raise businesses and incorporate children, that sort of thing. And in some places, the dominant culture doesn't favour people who have seen the world and learnt fancy stuff to come back and mess with the local politics with their New Ideas(tm). This is how a big part of the USA's "flyover country" works. Unfortunately, this might also have ended up being a major pattern for the Formerly East Germany (well, outside the Berlin metropolitan area, anyway).
-
Riley S. Faelanreplied to GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) last edited by
@GreenSkyOverMe You're telling me that the East German economy was doing well immediately before the Mauerfall?
Really?
-
Riley S. Faelanreplied to Suzanne Veerman last edited by
@smveerman So now you understand Hungary. @jon
-
@Island_Martha The sad irony is, capitalist economy doesn't really have tools for building new capitalisms from scratch. Your plan would require central planning of the kind that used to common in the former Eastern Block, except they didn't have an idea about building a capitalist economy, or in company towns, except they don't have an idea about building a non-dystopic community.
And so, in some places, we now have both sucking economy and dystopic community.
-
GreenSkyOverMe (Monika)replied to Riley S. Faelan last edited by
-
-
Riley S. Faelanreplied to GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) last edited by
@GreenSkyOverMe State your sources.
-
GreenSkyOverMe (Monika)replied to Riley S. Faelan last edited by
@riley @nichni You weren‘t there, were you? When most of the companies shut down and half the working age population became unemployed? Officially 18% but that’s because people on retraining, Sozialhilfe (lowest level welfare) and Arbeitsbeschaffungsmaßnahme (work opportunity) don’t count as unemployed.
-
Riley S. Faelanreplied to GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) last edited by
@GreenSkyOverMe You're trying to fudge the numbers by presenting closures as though this was the difference between the before and after states.
I won't let you do this standard propaganda trick. I know how people like to lie with statistics.
State your sources. Historic economic indicators are readily available. It's not a hard thing to do, if you care about the reality.
-
@Island_Martha What do you know about Estonia's economic transition?
-
@riley Given @Island_Martha has been living in Estonia for a couple of decades, a fair amount I imagine.