Is the war in Gaza a civil war?
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
Some links for the inevitable definition demanders:
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan my reasoning:
Israel is an occupying power over the Palestinian Territories which are recognized by International bodies as not a part of Israel, so it cannot be a civil war.Also because the Palestinian people in Gaza have absolutely no standing in Israel politically, as citizens or otherwise, then again it can’t be a civil war.
Since Hamas is a governing body in Gaza the war can really only be described as a conflict between a nation-state and sub-national state.
So, strong no.
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Amir E. Aharonireplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan Of course it isn't.
There was something very similar to a civil war in Gaza in 2007, and it's not remembered much.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Amir E. Aharoni last edited by
@aharoni not a "one state reality" fan?
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Amir E. Aharonireplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan That's not what I said, and I'm not even sure what "one state reality" means. It's not a term I remember seeing.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Amir E. Aharoni last edited by
@aharoni "The term one-state reality describes the belief that the current situation in Israel/Palestine is de facto a single state."
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@aharoni if Israel/Palestine is de facto a single state, and if a civil war is a war between organized groups within the same state, I think there's a fair case to be made that the War in Gaza is a civil war.
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@evan is genocide
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@irenerd they're not mutually exclusive. Many genocides have taken place as part of a civil war.
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Amir E. Aharonireplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan OK... I wasn't familiar with this term. That's a very, very big if. It's an oversimplification, and it's somewhere on the spectrum between useless and harmful. So yes, I guess you could say I'm not a fan of this term. Not necessarily because it's not true; *in some ways* it is true. But I'm mostly not a fan because the actual reality of the number of states on that land cannot be usefully described in one microblogging post.
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infinite love ⴳreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
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Scott M. Stolzreplied to Evan Prodromou last edited byI'll put on my political science hat for a moment.
Since Palestine and Israel are administered separately and have separate leaders (de facto), for classification purposes, I would say that the war and fighting between the two is not a civil war. On the other hand, armed insurrection of Palestinians who oppose the current Palestinian regime would be engaged in civil war or rebellion.
That would be the technical definition, and not necessarily the political one.
Since some claim that Israel and Palestine are one state, they would claim it was a civil war based on legalities (de jure).
So there is a distinct difference between de facto and de jure in this case. Or put more simply, a difference between reality and what's on paper. -
Evan Prodromoureplied to Amir E. Aharoni last edited by
@aharoni Yeah, I get that.
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@janneke @evan no argument that they are trying to colonize and settle Palestine, but the war isn’t happening in the settlements. It is happening in Gaza, which has not been consumed by Israel. It had a separate government, separate citizens, separate infrastructure, even though Israel is gatekeeper the two are not the same.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Scott M. Stolz last edited by
@scott Interesting!
I think the argument of the "one state reality" is that the territory that has been occupied and managed by a single government for almost 60 years, since 1967, is functionally a single state.
Even the proposed "two-state solution" from Oslo supposes a less-than-sovereign state in the West Bank and Gaza, with no military or border control.
Anyway, thanks for the in-depth response.
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Scott M. Stolzreplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by@Evan Prodromou I'll let people judge for themselves, but it comes down to this question:
Is Palestine being treated as an occupied territory, or is it being treated as equals with the same rights and privileges?
Your answer to that will tell you if they are de facto one state or two.