Moderation:
-
@Dseitz
Pretty sure the problem is people more than places. There’s an alarming quantity of fashiness marbled through just about every place on Earth. -
@mighty_orbot
I did not say “social media.” You may have heard that, but I didn’t say it. (What phrase did I use? It was not an accident.)This is about Apple accepting or rejecting user-submitted content to be shared with other users based on (1) how it affects those other users and (2) how it affects the company. That is the •definition• of moderation.
-
@inthehands “… it should be clear that improvements in communication tend to divide mankind …” by Harold Innis in Changing Concepts of Time
Someone with a degree in communication science gave me that quote years ago when I was wondering what was wrong with people on social media.
Remember what happened when the printing press was invented, or radio became a commodity?
-
@inthehands “Moderation” and “social internet” usually imply social media. A storefront isn’t “social internet”. And it has nothing to do with this: https://hachyderm.io/@inthehands/113182678876034236
I’m not sure what you’re complaining about otherwise; surely we all know it’s a bad idea for Apple NOT to screen apps before making them available for download.
-
Chris Dickinsonreplied to Paul Cantrell last edited by
@inthehands yes to all of this. it’s also never been so easy to put a number to how “popular” the sentiment you’re sharing with others is — stuff like favorites, follower counts, and trending topics really changes the goals of communication from what we’re used to as a species
-
Sara Joy :happy_pepper:replied to MaineC last edited by
@mainec @inthehands Huh. Right.
The way I see it right now is that we can still only really handle so many meaningful social connections - and trying to do more means something has to give.
Either we end up with hundreds of connections but struggle to deepen any of them into true friendships (hi, it me) and/or we find a narrow social niche online that makes us feel at home (also me).
The real problem here is that some people feel at home in very dangerous company, and can find it easily now.
-
@mighty_orbot
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ This conversation has reached my personal limit for aggressively missing the point. -
Paul Cantrellreplied to Sara Joy :happy_pepper: last edited by
There’s a counter-point here, and a strong one, about the value of not isolating people. I think of all the queer kids out there who suffered thinking they’re the only ones, and found hope and community online. I think of how, despite caring my whole life about racial justice, I completely missed huge swaths of the reality of racism in the US until I heard Black people discussing their lived experiences online. All that I want.
-
Completely agree with @Linza This is a solvable problem that's not getting solved because companies don't want to. They don't care and/or don't want it to influence the bottom line. Lack of moderation is making them money, so there's no incentive to take proper care of it. So incentivese them.
It's also definitely not philosophically intractable. Behavior and speech are moderated through laws and societal norms on a daily basis and we're pretty ok with that.
-
Sara Joy :happy_pepper:replied to Paul Cantrell last edited by
@inthehands @mainec oh totally agreeeeee
I have learned so much social good from the internet, and I think the younger generations are also more open minded and free of a lot of traditional societal bullshit because of it.
But while I love that I have been able to find *my* people, those of like mind, we have similar feelings and problems and loves and values - well, everyone else gets to do that too. And some of those people have very different values - some even harmful "values" - to mine.
-
@usmu @Linza
I might have said some of the same 10 years ago. My thinking has changed.Among other things, the moderation failures well-meaning, hard-working, and definitely not profit-motivated instance admins have experienced right here on the Fedi suggests this “they just don’t want to solve it” view is naive. Not to excuse Meta et al for being awful. But I do think the problem is intrinsically difficult, and not pure negligence. Remember this: https://hachyderm.io/@inthehands/113043105185561409
-
Paul Cantrellreplied to Sara Joy :happy_pepper: last edited by
-
@Linza @sandofsky
Please take a moment to read the article and think about whether higher pay would make it ethical to do to people what Meta did to these Kenyans. -
@datarama
Fair, but also: https://hachyderm.io/@inthehands/113182972198853236 -
@inthehands @sandofsky I'm 99% certain you know what I mean but if you want to hang on to "labor will always be abused so there can be no humans employed ever" then weird hill to die on but OK.
-
@Linza
That is not at all what I’m saying, and is a ridiculous strawman.I’m saying some jobs are so toxic in their current form that they simply should not be done by humans. Asking people to, say, clean up nuclear waste before the invention of protective gear is not just a labor problem.
So no, I have no idea what the hell you’re saying.
-
@inthehands I also don't have answers.
But I think there must be a way for people (including vulnerable people) to find community *without* the "everything you say will be scrutinized by 150000 hostile strangers (and, now, robots)" model.
-
That's why moderation needs to be properly supported. Both by tools to make moderation possible as well as education on what proper moderation entails for everybody involved. This is not being done (enough). The more proper moderation gets normalised the easier it gets for moderation to be done well, because it disincentiveses unwanted behavior. Lets start by getting FB et al to take this seriously. By no means perfect, but it seems a way to make some quick gains.
1/2
-
@datarama
Yup. -
To be honest I find that insinuation that this is a "couldn't you just..." denigrating. What I'm saying is that if you're in a business that requires moderation you need to take that requirement seriously. If you don't, you need to be forced to do so. This takes works on a lot of fronts, but lets start doing it instead of complaining it's hard.
2/2