I'm sorry, it took *how* many servers to post a single long message from Ghost to 5k fediverse accounts and handle some replies?
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bumblefudgereplied to ๐ฃ unimplemented trap ๐ last edited by
@kissane @4d3fect I used it for thousands of subscribers years ago and it was like $9/mo. activitypub may only make sense for self hosting if having thousands of masto followers is burning that much juice. I'd be interested to benchmark 5thousand followers on 100 masto servers versus 5000 on 100 threads versus 100 friendica versus 100 pleroma etc etc... someone write a grant proposal!
๏ธ
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Pete Ashtonreplied to ๐ฃ unimplemented trap ๐ last edited by
@kissane @fediversereport @thisismissem I read that post as โwe set this up using our standard systems and they are definitely not right for this, so weโre going to have to figure out a different system that fits and thatโll take a while, but weโll get there.โ But Iโm just watching and enjoying the messy honesty of these posts, not necessarily understanding the details.
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@Viss @kissane @fediversereport ghost is using fedify! which is fairly modern JS AFAIK.
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@Viss @kissane @fediversereport might be more networking intensive than compute intensive, fwiw
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@by_caballero @kissane @fediversereport yeah the issue here isn't the front end js stuff - its whats running under the hood, powering any given mastodon instance. its a ton of ruby on rails, which twitter showed the world "isnt exactly the best language/framework to do huge, high volume. small bandwidth transactions and queueing systems". its why twitter scrambled to get off RoR and moved to scala as they grew.
i was VERY SURPRISED, to say the least, learning that mastodon still uses RoR.
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@Viss @kissane @fediversereport right but ghost doesn't run mastodon, it runs fedify which interoperable with mastodon API. the 10 servers in question are fedify servers:
https://fedify.dev/ -
๐ฃ unimplemented trap ๐replied to Pete Ashton last edited by
@pete @fediversereport @thisismissem I think that's a reasonable take!
It's also partly the information that to federate Ghost posts to a group that's equivalent in size to the number of people who follow me on Mastodon will cost at least $155/monthโnot counting email subscribersโis somewhat startling to me.
Like, I fully understand that infra isn't free, but Wordpress (which I am not going to use) charges $25/mo for a plan that includes AP federation.
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@by_caballero @kissane @fediversereport the repo that project links to appears to be a node/npm project with dirs indicating it runs inside a docker container.
so this is javascript running 'as a server' inside docker, which is very different than ruby on rails, but in its own way, super topheavy in terms of layers of abstraction, and also entirely unsurprising it gets loaded down easily.
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@by_caballero @kissane Did it support comments sections, notifications &c?
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@polotek @kissane @fediversereport I remember when twitter first launched and everyone in that community were discovering the work needed to get RoR to scale to a global โfirehoseโ size. Feels like we're back there again but in different ways.
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Ziggy the Hamster :whyfox:๐น๐ปreplied to Viss last edited by
@Viss @by_caballero @kissane @fediversereport
That was literally 16 years ago.
Most of the world still ran Windows XP and Internet Explorer.
Ruby and Rails are plenty fast today, and one could argue was when Twitter changed, but they were unwilling to make large changes to their code to be able to upgrade.
If you use GitHub, buy something with Shopify, or listen to a lot of podcasts, you are using Rails apps that perform just fine.
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Pete Ashtonreplied to ๐ฃ unimplemented trap ๐ last edited by
@kissane @fediversereport @thisismissem Yeah, thatโs a downer. I wonder (based on total ignorance!) if thereโs an incremental way to do this sort of thing? Like RSS broadcast at one end, full Masto ping-fest at the other, and Ghost could be somewhere inbetween?
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Ziggy the Hamster :whyfox:๐น๐ปreplied to Ziggy the Hamster :whyfox:๐น๐ป last edited by
@Viss @by_caballero @kissane @fediversereport oh shit, I also forgot about GitLab.
Mastodon isnโt a resource hog due to Rails, itโs a resource hog due to ActivityPub being somewhat badly implemented across the board, meaning that most actions result in amplification (ping N servers about a reply) and this amplification can sometimes be severe.
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@pete @kissane @fediversereport many activitypub servers use queues for processing incoming activities, along with caches
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@poswald @kissane @fediversereport I should be more clear about which issue I'm referring to. There are many technical issues to solve. I'm talking specifically about an issue that is specific to the decentralized nature of the fediverse. There are many optimizations that a company like twitter can do to scale fanouts, because they control both the source and the destination. Fediverse servers do not have that advantage. And more so, many servers are likely to be under resourced.
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@poswald @kissane @fediversereport As far as I understand, mastodon's implementation is particularly naive today. If you have 5000 followers, every post creates 5000 jobs. There are many optimizations they can make today that will help. But I believe the problem of scaling of decentralized message delivery is going to be a huge bugbear if the fediverse keeps growing.
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Matt Wiebereplied to ๐ฃ unimplemented trap ๐ last edited by
@kissane @pete @fediversereport @thisismissem You can federate with all of our WordPress.com plans, including the free plan! I assure you our infra can handle a lot more than the fediverse has been able to throw at it thus far.
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๐ฃ unimplemented trap ๐replied to Matt Wiebe last edited by
@mattwiebe @pete @fediversereport @thisismissem Ah, I must have been reading old docs!
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Matt Wiebereplied to ๐ฃ unimplemented trap ๐ last edited by
@kissane You do need that plan for installing plugins but many features, like ActivityPub, are available on all plans.
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๐ฃ unimplemented trap ๐replied to Matt Wiebe last edited by
@mattwiebe So I went back to see what docs I'd run into as I searched while making dinner, in case it's useful: I googled "activitypub wordpress free" (not in quotes) bc I thought I remembered that it was free. The first few results offered no obvious answer, but the fourth had one that was accurate at the time, but isn't now.
(Might I have checked another post if I hadn't been stirring multiple pots of noodles? Very likely yes.)