Non-English Names

[sxan@midwest.social]

I have always tried to pronounce names correctly, and I have a decent ear. However, with some languages, I apparently can't hear some distinctions; there have been times when I was certain I was mimicking the sounds correctly, but the person repeatedly corrected me. It's not (necessarily) that I can't make the sounds, it's that I can't hear the difference between what's right and what I'm saying. Chinese is one of those; I can't get the romanized X and Z right.

[odium@programming.dev]

Why is there a correct way? What's the correct way of pronouncing j? German, English, and Spanish have three different ways to pronounce it.

pinyin is way more consistent than English.

[jutty@blendit.bsd.cafe]

I think you really miss the point. It's as if your suggestion that romanization methods have imperfections dismisses the actual reasons why people will refuse to make the effort to learn how to pronounce a name from a language other than their own, which go far beyond whether or not the spelling "makes sense".

The comic gives a very concrete example of that. It wouldn't matter if the letters exactly mapped to a perfect pronunciation, the mere fact it does not roll of the tongue, i.e. "sounds foreign", coupled with the underlying xenophobia+racism combo is what's at work there.

[samus12345@lemm.ee]

Like a Japanese person trying to differentiate between l and r.

[samus12345@lemm.ee]

Yes, but only because I'm familiar with German. And I'd still mess it up when trying to pronounce it.

[feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world]

It doesn't really sound like "sh" though, it is a different phoneme. You place the tip of your tongue in the centre of the gum ridge behind your bottom teeth, rather than the top one. They have that noise as well, and - unsurprisingly I suppose - it is written "sh".

[lightfire228@pawb.social]

".... Do you have an English name?"

Also, Bridge 4

[odium@programming.dev]

Bridge 4!

Also, I know you're quoting the video, but I do not and it has resulted in many similar situations.

[soup@lemmy.world]

I’m gunna imagine this was you asking to get it perfect instead of close enough? ‘Cause then I can see them trying to help and the sound being a little tricky.

From my experience it seems like people, in general, would just rather a barely approximate attempt. The guy in the comic isn’t even trying to get it right and if they are then I’m sorry but they are profoundly stupid. It’s english words smashed together, we have the sounds and not even getting close is honestly pathetic.

[lanik2000@lemmy.world]

Aye, it's curious how one's upbringing affects their hearing. The Americans I interacted with can't tell the Czech P and B apart. Which I find fucking weird as mixing them up in Czech results in absolute gibberish. Probably similar to how TH and F sound the same to me.

[ayyy@sh.itjust.works]

I always appreciate when people try, even if they suck. All you can ask of someone is that they try, it’s a good philosophy for life as well. Otherwise you’ll just be angry all the time.

[neatobuilds@mander.xyz]

Sometimes it do be like that, humans will human

[belastend@slrpnk.net]

strict pronounciation rules
german

Nah, this aint it. Finnish has strict pronounciation rules but German is pretty loose.

[lumidaub@feddit.org]

familiar with German

Exactly. Different languages have different phonology that you have to be familiar with, there is no one way to "spell it like it's pronounced" (except IPA and even that can be tricky).

[lastunusedusername2@sh.itjust.works]

Do people place the tip of their tongue on something when pronouncing "sh"?

[feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world]

Not quite, but that's where the channel for the air is formed, if you see what I mean. Placing the tongue is a cue for teaching the tongue position.

[moody@lemmings.world]

The X in romanized Chinese is particularly bad, because depending on what part of China, HK, or Taiwain (or other Chinese-speaking country) the person is from, they would pronounce it quite differently. Enough that if you learned from one, the others would try to correct your pronunciation, assuming that you learned it wrong.

[thereturnofpeb@reddthat.com]

after a lifetime of "fatty patty boom bah laddy" taken in good humor i'm not feeling the rage here

[proudblond@lemmy.world]

I’m a super white lady living in a pretty multicultural area. Sadly I feel like I mostly experience the opposite here from my non-white friends. Those with names from their ancestral culture (is that a good way to put it? Not sure) either ignore our mispronunciations or simply adopt western names. I had a coworker from Shanghai whose name I always said wrong because of the inflection. It makes me sad that they kind of give up trying to teach people to pronounce their names correctly, but at the same time, I get it. It’s a lot of constant work and some of us white people, or other non-whites from different cultures, just aren’t going to try or see why it’s important. I probably wouldn’t force the issue either if it were me, but man, what a constant way to feel othered.

[grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org]

You don't even have to go outside of English for examples. See: the pen/pin distinction in English: some speakers have it, some can hear it when I speak, and some can't.