I love systemd
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M [email protected] shared this topic
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But it doesn't follow the Unix Philosophy!
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I
lovehatelovehatelove systemd!It’s great sometimes but trying to deal with systemd-related objects in an OpenBMC Yocto project has been an absolute nightmare. Like many things, it’s got ups and downs.
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not everything needs to be a file.
in fact most things shouldn't.
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GNU is Not Unix
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Benno Rice gave an excellent talk on this:
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Pretty sure they meant the whole "do one thing, do it well, and prefer composition" part.
But I'm more interested in what parts of systemd don't follow the file metaphor, and what things you think shouldn't follow that metaphor? How would you interact with those things?
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..."No, not like that"
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Heh? Why?
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Oooooh, wait. Does Quadlet let you run containers via systemd unit files??
Quadlet is a tool for running Podman containers under systemd in an optimal way by allowing containers to run under systemd in a declarative way.
Make systemd better for Podman with Quadlet
One of the best features of Podman is how well it works with systemd. Podman uses the standard fork/exec model, which is easily adaptable to the systemd syst...
(www.redhat.com)
That's cool! Thanks! TIL!
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When will you learn? When will you learn that your choices in process management software have consequences?
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Ok so I'm just my own system administrator, yet I like systemd because I remember how much less... reliable the former alternatives were on my computers.
BUT. I dislike having to learn more commands just to read my logs, and systemd timers are awfully complicated when I just needed what cronjobs already did.
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It's like
docker-composeon steroids if you don't use Kubenetes and want to treat your machines like pets not cattle -
Yeah but you can use
journalctlon literally everything from binaries to units to cron jobs with the same interface. You don't need to find the log file just punch it intojournalctl -
Linux Is Not UniX
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journalctl. I don't give a damn as to where the logs are, and I just have telljournalctlto give me the logs for whatever I want. -
It adds more functionality but makes adminstration more complicated.
Like I was reading posts on Lemmy yesterday that the reason Nextcloud file sync is preferred over seafile for some is because seafile stores the data in a format that can only be read by seafile. This is what systemd does.
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I’m still looking for a cheatsheet mapping journalctl commands to plain tail+grep on var log files…
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Ok so I’m just my own system administrator
I manage what people call Large Enterprise. As my side gig, I manage Small Offices / Branch Offices.
I remember how much less… reliable the former alternatives were on my computers.
Remember that systemd is also used on massive server farms that need consistent fast reboots during recovery from vary occasional mishap. These things have all but a stopwatch running.
My god, is systemd ever a piece of crap. Coupled with 'consistent[ha!] naming' it's the single most likely thing to cause a field engineer to scream into the partially-lit datacenter in abject rage and hate. Even more if they remember how fucking sysVinit actually delivered on the promise. Even more if they still remember how well inittab Just Worked.
I read starry-eyed lennartophiles praising the reliability and ease of use and I wonder whether they didn't know the basics of systemd, or just don't understand the problems plaguing servers now. Like apple fans, screeching at non-apple users, I worry this lack of understanding causes a very biased approach where issues with apple/systemd are "just impossible to solve" where android/runit issues are "obvious indications why they're broken systems and should be avoided; and also you're old if you like them."
BUT. I dislike having to learn more commands just to read my logs,
You signed up for this.
and systemd timers are awfully complicated when I just needed what cronjobs already did.
You signed up for this.
It's like those shitty cable bundles where you want HBO Max but also have to buy 4 channels of Golf, 2 of only Nascar-based Reality shows, and one that just shows Real World marathons, over and over; and also have to pay for all 8 .
THE UNIX PHILOSOPHY is to not over-reach the designed purpose. It allows for combinations of tools based on what's more reliable/current/compatible at the current moment and keeps tools concise. Having things move over to timers from cron or xkcd/927 logging because Lennart and Kay couldn't be bothered to understand and work with what's existing, and deciding to replace everything by this growing blob of monolithic dreck, is bad for a reason that's been proved in the past. And those who are too lazy to read history will elect fascists. or something.
