I love systemd

Amon

It's like docker-compose on steroids if you don't use Kubenetes and want to treat your machines like pets not cattle

Amon

Yeah but you can use journalctl on literally everything from binaries to units to cron jobs with the same interface. You don't need to find the log file just punch it into journalctl

Amon

Linux Is Not UniX

Amon

journalctl. I don't give a damn as to where the logs are, and I just have tell journalctl to give me the logs for whatever I want.

lazynooblet

It adds more functionality but makes adminstration more complicated.

Like I was reading posts on Lemmy yesterday that the reason Nextcloud file sync is preferred over seafile for some is because seafile stores the data in a format that can only be read by seafile. This is what systemd does.

Ⓜ3️⃣3️⃣ 🌌

I’m still looking for a cheatsheet mapping journalctl commands to plain tail+grep on var log files…

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Ok so I’m just my own system administrator

I manage what people call Large Enterprise. As my side gig, I manage Small Offices / Branch Offices.

I remember how much less… reliable the former alternatives were on my computers.

Remember that systemd is also used on massive server farms that need consistent fast reboots during recovery from vary occasional mishap. These things have all but a stopwatch running.

My god, is systemd ever a piece of crap. Coupled with 'consistent[ha!] naming' it's the single most likely thing to cause a field engineer to scream into the partially-lit datacenter in abject rage and hate. Even more if they remember how fucking sysVinit actually delivered on the promise. Even more if they still remember how well inittab Just Worked.

I read starry-eyed lennartophiles praising the reliability and ease of use and I wonder whether they didn't know the basics of systemd, or just don't understand the problems plaguing servers now. Like apple fans, screeching at non-apple users, I worry this lack of understanding causes a very biased approach where issues with apple/systemd are "just impossible to solve" where android/runit issues are "obvious indications why they're broken systems and should be avoided; and also you're old if you like them."

BUT. I dislike having to learn more commands just to read my logs,

You signed up for this.

and systemd timers are awfully complicated when I just needed what cronjobs already did.

You signed up for this.

It's like those shitty cable bundles where you want HBO Max but also have to buy 4 channels of Golf, 2 of only Nascar-based Reality shows, and one that just shows Real World marathons, over and over; and also have to pay for all 8 .

THE UNIX PHILOSOPHY is to not over-reach the designed purpose. It allows for combinations of tools based on what's more reliable/current/compatible at the current moment and keeps tools concise. Having things move over to timers from cron or xkcd/927 logging because Lennart and Kay couldn't be bothered to understand and work with what's existing, and deciding to replace everything by this growing blob of monolithic dreck, is bad for a reason that's been proved in the past. And those who are too lazy to read history will elect fascists. or something.

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pets not cattle

I love this one because it flirts with all the bad things of 30-year-old RFCs and forgets sheepdogs in the tight narrative handwave.

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You can use systemd with the classic logging tools by installing and enabling their respective service if you prefer. This will forward all messages to them. You even get a more comprehensive log than before systemd as the latter will even forward the messages that were sent before the logging service was started.

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journalctl. I don’t give a damn as to where the logs are, and I just

But for a tool that read log configs and find that out for you, you've let Timers into your home.

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That's all fine and good, but that's not quite related to the "everything is a file" metaphor. The data is still stored in files and accessed using conventional io and the command itself is routinely piped to other commands.

Everything being a file is extremely pervasive in unix, and I couldn't think of what systemd was doing that went in opposition to the metaphor.

macniel

That ain't the Unix Philosophy I was refering to.

mosiacmango

Here's a good example for Jellyfin that got me started with quadlets.

Note on the above: the linuxserver.io jellyfin image gas an ffmpeg bug in it, so swap to the official docker image in the config.

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Ok I don't know how sheepdogs fit into the analogy but IMO they are neither pets nor cattle. They are like coworkers, and if I have to risk one every now and then to keep the wolves busy, so be it.

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Thats an interesting opinion, unfortunately I disagree so it must be wrong :3

/s /j

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So far I'm not in love with systemd-networkd...

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Thank you for this. I haven't been any sort of sysadmin in a good long time and when I was, I didn't manage more than three or four servers. But I am fed up enough with SystemD to finally go to the trouble of switching back from Arch to the Gentoo I used to run and love. And it's a breath of fresh air dealing with OpenRC (and generally the whole Gentoo ecosystem) again.

Unit files are a pain to deal with. I love that with init scripts, if I can write Bash scripts, I can write init scripts without having to look up every little thing in Google and in man pages.

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I'm an older fella who supported BSD systems before transitioning careers, the damn fact that you can't just read a log file was enough to get my hairs up.

I still subscribe to the philosophy as you put it, a system is only as reliable as it's components.. the sum of simple tools worked way better than systemd ever has in my opinion.

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So, I don't know as much as you do, but I'm wondering; if it's that bad, why did it ever get popular? It's not like people who write/program/maintain/deploy Linux aren't usually very knowledgeable. They're usually experts and computer scientists. It seems to me, at least, if it's that bad, it would have never been adopted so widely? Is Systemd pulling a Microsoft and bribing people or something?

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No, it's much simpler- distro maintainers moved to it because it's simpler for them to roll out, and they don't get blamed for the problems.