Hamas is not doing liberation. Hamas may be fighting Israel, but both it and the Israeli government hold the same position that there should be no peace, that war should continue until either the Jews or the Palestinians perish.that's why for years it'...
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Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Emi:emi_blahaj: last edited by
@emi @Yuvalne @burnoutqueen you too. Hamas agreed to a ceasefire to save itself, not Gazans.
There's no military solution to Kahanists either. I don't like making this comparison, but see today's Germany - the far right is slowly returning. No, they aren't Nazis, and no, neither is Netanjahu, nor Smotrich, not Ben Gvir.
The only way you can fight *both* is Israeli and Palestinian mutual dependency.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the only difference between Hamas and Israel is opportunity.
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Emi:emi_blahaj:replied to Laxystem (Masto/Glitch) last edited by
israel is an apartheid state.
the material conditions subjected to palestinians is what creates violent resistance.
the south african apartheid ended after both internal and external pressure reached a boiling point. from the bds movement abroad to the anc internally, and yes the paramilitary wing of the anc played a huge part as well.
in fact, nelson mandela was on the terrorist watch list until 2008.
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Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Emi:emi_blahaj: last edited by
And all of this affects what I said, how?
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Emi:emi_blahaj:replied to Laxystem (Masto/Glitch) last edited by
the only solution going forward that can avoid a larger regional war given the fact that israel has shown themselves uninterested in ceasefire or peace is for the us to obey our own laws (section 620I of the foreign assistance act) and halt military aid to isreal.
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Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️replied to Emi:emi_blahaj: last edited by
@emi @burnoutqueen @laxla
you came into a thread, discussing white people's support for the oppressive organisation that is Hamas, and you are now telling a jewish person - who is advocating for the economy of the country she herself lives in to collapse to stop the genocide - that Israel needs to be stopped.
I want you to think really deeply about why you automatically assume Jews are pro-Israel & why you assume you know more than people who actually experience this war. -
Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Emi:emi_blahaj: last edited by
@emi @Yuvalne @burnoutqueen First, "our"? Half the people in this thread are Israeli.
Second, try going a little deeper. Why do you think Israeli extremists exist?
Initially, it was because of the Holocaust, and the antisemitism in the places Jews escaped to (e.g. NYC), that caused some people to believe they, and only they, have a right over the Promised Land. Those people, with some British help, have managed to create a conflict between the Arab and (partially migrant) Jewish populations in Palestina. From there, it all snowballed into two different governments fighting over control of the land (when the mandate ended).
Current-day Israeli and Palestinian extremists both exist because of the conflict.
Your solution isn't of the same problem; you're to end your own involvement, not the conflict itself.
The only way to end the conflict itself is Israeli and Palestinian co-dependency, and creating such a situation is way more complicated than simply ending American weapon supplies.
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Emi:emi_blahaj:replied to Laxystem (Masto/Glitch) last edited by
ending military aid, or even just seriously threatening its end, is the only way we can force israel’s government to agree to the previous 3 stage ceasefire proposed over the summer.
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Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️ last edited by
@Yuvalne @emi @burnoutqueen and to prove that we know at least a tad more than you about the conflict:
Israel is currently collapsing. The state doesn't care about its own population, the leadership and the bureaucracy are unaware of facts on the ground, the entire defensive military is dysfunctional; The state of Israel isn't protected by the IDF, it's protected by civilians.
The current attitude of the entirety of the political spectrum, excluding the far-right, is support for complete Palestinian autonomy --- to let them decide on their own future, separate than Israel's, completely. That is, Israel will simply withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza, completely.
Almost all northern Israeli councils declared that they no longer recognize the government, and would rather have their villages raided by Hezbollah over the government 'helping'. -
Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Emi:emi_blahaj: last edited by
@emi @Yuvalne @burnoutqueen have you considered that ceasefires aren't the goal here?
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Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️replied to Emi:emi_blahaj: last edited by
@emi @burnoutqueen @laxla
you give the US more power than it actually has.
I am fully support the US cutting off Israel completely. in fact I wish both times Netanyahu paid the US a visit he'd be arrested on the spot and brought to the Hague.but you need to understand some parts of Israeli politics are, as fascists do, suicidal. people like Smutrich will go ahead even as everything burns around them.
there's like a 50% chance Israel continues even after the US stops.
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Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Laxystem (Masto/Glitch) last edited by
@emi @Yuvalne @burnoutqueen a 'ceasefire' is what we had for the last 80 years, until, it ended!
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Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️replied to Laxystem (Masto/Glitch) last edited by
@laxla @emi @burnoutqueen
I mean, not even 80 years. like 2. 10 if you want to go to the last big bout of violence.
ceasefire is literally not even step 1. it's literally just step 0. there's so much to do after that. -
Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️ last edited by
@Yuvalne @emi @burnoutqueen extremism isn't solved by international intervention.
It's solved by having a non-extremist takeover the government and reform education.
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Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️ last edited by
@Yuvalne @emi @burnoutqueen my intention was on and off.
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Emi:emi_blahaj:replied to Laxystem (Masto/Glitch) last edited by
80 years?
how many palestinians were killed in 2023 before October 7th?
it has been constant violence for those in occupied palestine.
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Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️replied to Laxystem (Masto/Glitch) last edited by
@emi
yup. like for example, did you know that Israel had 4 credit score reductions in a bit more than half a year?
some even say collapse is part of the fascists' plan. I'd give that a maybe. but you have to understand that fighting fascists is more than just "daddy biden says no".
@laxla @burnoutqueen -
Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Emi:emi_blahaj: last edited by
@emi @Yuvalne @burnoutqueen and how many palestinians do you think are going to die during a ceasefire?
Spoiler, it won't be zero.
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Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️ last edited by
@Yuvalne @emi @burnoutqueen Biden saying no would even make the entire thing worse. Because then instead of a western country going rogue, you'd have an anti imperial country doing what anti imperial countries do.
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Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️replied to Laxystem (Masto/Glitch) last edited by
@laxla @emi @burnoutqueen
honestly I gave up on the notion that I am able to predict the outcomes of decisions accurately. there's a chance that if the US puts all its force behind stopping the war that it works, there's a chance it doesn't. there's a chance that a full financial collapse stops this government, there's a chance it just emboldens it.as it is the case when you fight fascists, you often need to hedge your bets and hope you succeed.
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Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)replied to Laxystem (Masto/Glitch) last edited by
@Yuvalne @emi @burnoutqueen we, Israelis, are just standing here, powerless, watching our entire world fall apart, enemies we didn't even choose to hate trying to kill us, and having the entire world shit on us and trying to educate us about stuff we already know. And this applies to the entirety of the political spectrum.
People (like you, Emi) fail to realize that a lot of (far) rightists know; they just don't care. Because that's what extremism is. So yeah, it's funny having people look at you like you're stupid, when they're being the stupid one.
Israeli politics isn't about truth (e.g. America); It's about conclusions from mostly-agreed-upon facts.