I once worked at a company that sold industry-specific core-business software to deep-pocketed corps who couldn’t / wouldn’t / shouldn’t roll their own.

Paul Cantrell

@rrdot
Cheers! Screaming into the void may be futile, but I guess it’s nice when somebody enjoys the concert?!

Paul Cantrell

@thias
Absolutely. Getting to the place where Goohart is the relevant problem was my foolish dream.

Paul Cantrell

@peter
Yeah, the first example is the only one in the thread that's •not• bullshit. Point is that (1) if you say it’s terrible, you have to ask “As compared to what?,” and point of the later examples is (2) the true business goal isn’t always what you think it is.

If we want to understand the function of LLMs for corps, we have to work through those questions. And given the amount of work that’s •already• BS, I’m not necessarily shorting the LLMs even though they’re BS too.

Advanced Persistent Teapot

@kaasbaas @inthehands like the well being of staff for example

Paul Cantrell

@stew_sims
Yeah. For example: some of those ancient mainframe systems are just rock solid: somebody built it right in like 1972 in COBOL or whatever, and it’s far wiser to do hardware maint to keep the same code running than to attempt a rewrite!

Point is that in my first example, yes, the bad product really •was• better. “Compared to what?” and “Toward what goal?” are both questions that can have very surprising answers.

Paul Cantrell

@sennoma
sorry

Paul Cantrell

@plsik
sorry/welcome?

Paul Cantrell

@KatS
You’re agressively agreeing with me: the point is that, in that first example in my thread that you're replying to, our terrible product really •was• an improvement. Nobody was being swindled. The companies knew how bad our stuff was, and knew how much worse their current processes were. No hoax there.

—

Students are always astonished when I tell them that of course you release software w/bugs. “Ideally, a good team understands •what• bugs they're releasing.”

Paul Cantrell

@Stevenheywood
Back then and still today, I think

Paul Cantrell

@paulmwatson
I mean, yes, and to hell with the church of Altman. I do think this is a bubble and there will be a crash.

Paul Cantrell

@penguin42
Yup, definitely recognize “nobody’s actually gotten that far” from support — and I’ve been on both sides of that conversation!

Paul Cantrell

@wolf480pl
Someone once remarked that patients are the free labor of the US medical system, and that’s really stuck with me. And it’s not just medical where that pattern occurs.

Paul Cantrell

@cammerman
You’re welcome??

Paul Cantrell

@gme
No, but one of the companies I worked for was purchased by Oracle after I left, so yes, I was in that general universe.

George Ellenburg (he/him/his)

@[email protected] I have nothing but hatred and disdain for Oracle.

Paul Cantrell

@http_error_418 @kaasbaas
Human well-being?! Why would •that• ever matter?!?

Paul Cantrell

@gme
They are certainly…something!

Martin Vermeer FCD

@inthehands I once half in jest claimed that the real reason proprietary software companies don't disclose their source code is not because it is a 'valuable business secret' but because they are ashamed of it. The code quality, I mean. Those rare opportunities I have had to look at source have not changed my mind...

Paul Cantrell

@martinvermeer
Yes, and not just ashamed of the quality; in many causes it would expose the product as being an empty promise, maybe even expose outright negligence or fraud.

Paul Cantrell

Because I’ve apparently driven some people to despair with this thread, some rays of hope:

First, note that point of my very first example is that the product was •not• a hoax. It really did make things better for real people. Sometimes it can be hard for perfectionists like myself to accept that better is •better•. Sometimes we do actually build things that matter, even if they kind of stink relative to some nonexistent Platonic ideal. Take the win, Paul!

Ah, but the rest of the thread…

A/1