Happy #GlobalSwitchDay
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Oh that's good.
I've often wondered how could I make my instant messaging less instantaneous, while giving a new app access to my banking emails.
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Regarding SMTP:
SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol) is a foundational technology for email, but it has some limitations. Here are some ways it could be improved:
- Security: SMTP was designed in a time of less pervasive security threats. It lacks built-in encryption and authentication mechanisms, making it vulnerable to eavesdropping, spoofing, and spam. While extensions like TLS/SSL and authentication methods exist, they are not universally implemented or enforced.
- Efficiency: SMTP is a "chatty" protocol, meaning it involves multiple back-and-forth exchanges between the client and server. This can lead to latency and increased resource consumption, especially for large emails or bulk sending.
- Deliverability: SMTP doesn't have mechanisms to guarantee email delivery. Emails can get lost, delayed, or filtered as spam. While techniques like SPF, DKIM, and DMARC help, they are not foolproof.
- Features: SMTP is primarily designed for sending emails. It lacks features for managing email content, tracking delivery status, or handling complex email workflows.
Possible Improvements: - Mandatory Encryption: Enforcing TLS/SSL encryption for all SMTP connections would protect email content from interception.
- Stronger Authentication: Implementing more robust authentication mechanisms would prevent spoofing and ensure that emails originate from legitimate senders.
- Enhanced Deliverability: Developing mechanisms to track email delivery, provide feedback on delivery failures, and reduce spam filtering would improve deliverability.
- More Efficient Communication: Exploring alternative protocols or extensions that reduce the "chattiness" of SMTP could improve efficiency.
- Integration with other technologies: Integrating SMTP with other technologies like REST APIs or message queues could enable more complex email workflows and features.
It's important to note that some of these improvements are already being addressed through extensions and best practices. However, there is still room for improvement in making SMTP a more secure, efficient, and reliable technology.
That said, it looks like Delta Chat doesn't actually use SMTP, having scanned through the website. Though I'm honestly unsure either way as it was only a scan.
I asked specifically for relevant issues and you just link general issues with smtp that have no impact on Delta Chat?
SMTP is not secure
Delta Chat sends encrypted messages over it so that’s irrelevant.
SMTP is not efficiency
Your phone can run LLMs, it can send a couple packets. Also this “chattyness” can be seen as an advantage as it is extremely robust and works on any network however inconsistent.
SMTP doesn’t have a way to ensure stuff is delivered
Yeah duh? It’s decentralized. You can’t ensure that the recipient doesn’t take down their server?…
Etc. I feel like I’m wasting my time replying to all these because it seems you didn’t even take the time to read them yourself.
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Yeah I’d rather not share my identity though. Seems like an odd requirement for a “private” messenger
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Oh that's good.
I've often wondered how could I make my instant messaging less instantaneous, while giving a new app access to my banking emails.
Right? I did try Delta many years ago, and I really recommend using a new email account for it.
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Should definitely be the go-to
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Yeah I’d rather not share my identity though. Seems like an odd requirement for a “private” messenger
Private ≠ anonymous.
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Yea but not in vc debt so without the incentive to sell out users
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I agree that Signal is nice, but I think the point here is that Delta Chat is decentralized
Imo it's already difficult enough to convince friends and family to use Signal. Delta Chat would be even more difficult to pull off.
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Right? I did try Delta many years ago, and I really recommend using a new email account for it.
You can now also choose to just be assigned a new email account when you start using Delta Chat (only drawback is that you can’t send unencrypted emails with that email account so you can’t use it for anything other than chatting)
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Signal is neither of those
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Doesn't delta use email under the hood, an unsecure protocol?
You're better off using something like Matrix, XMPP, SimpleX or Signal.
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Doesn't delta use email under the hood, an unsecure protocol?
You're better off using something like Matrix, XMPP, SimpleX or Signal.
The protocol doesn’t really matter when you send encrypted messages over it like Delta Chat. Signal is not private and SimpleX doesn’t have encrypted group chats last time I tried
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The protocol doesn’t really matter when you send encrypted messages over it like Delta Chat. Signal is not private and SimpleX doesn’t have encrypted group chats last time I tried
The protocol doesn’t really matter when you send encrypted messages over it like Delta Chat
Maybe. My comment was based off of what i understood from the website
Signal is not private
Could you elaborate on this? haven't heard of this point (is it due to the jurisdiction on a 5 eyes country?)
SimpleX doesn’t have encrypted group chats last time I tried
It actually does now. It's a very solid choice i'd say
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I asked specifically for relevant issues and you just link general issues with smtp that have no impact on Delta Chat?
SMTP is not secure
Delta Chat sends encrypted messages over it so that’s irrelevant.
SMTP is not efficiency
Your phone can run LLMs, it can send a couple packets. Also this “chattyness” can be seen as an advantage as it is extremely robust and works on any network however inconsistent.
SMTP doesn’t have a way to ensure stuff is delivered
Yeah duh? It’s decentralized. You can’t ensure that the recipient doesn’t take down their server?…
Etc. I feel like I’m wasting my time replying to all these because it seems you didn’t even take the time to read them yourself.
As a heads up, the person you're arguing with seems to be using an LLM to generate text.
I would down vote and move on. It's not a real discussion.
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The protocol doesn’t really matter when you send encrypted messages over it like Delta Chat
Maybe. My comment was based off of what i understood from the website
Signal is not private
Could you elaborate on this? haven't heard of this point (is it due to the jurisdiction on a 5 eyes country?)
SimpleX doesn’t have encrypted group chats last time I tried
It actually does now. It's a very solid choice i'd say
You need a phone number to sign up which requires identification in most countries.
Also anyone who know your username can ping where you are at any time: https://gist.github.com/hackermondev/45a3cdfa52246f1d1201c1e8cdef6117#real-world-application-discord
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As a heads up, the person you're arguing with seems to be using an LLM to generate text.
I would down vote and move on. It's not a real discussion.
Downvote for what? What part is wrong?
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As a heads up, the person you're arguing with seems to be using an LLM to generate text.
I would down vote and move on. It's not a real discussion.
Yep. Noticed when they forked the convo.
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You can now also choose to just be assigned a new email account when you start using Delta Chat (only drawback is that you can’t send unencrypted emails with that email account so you can’t use it for anything other than chatting)
Oh, cool. TBH I don't think that's a drawback, just customised to the very specific usage. So you get a [email protected] email or something?
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I asked specifically for relevant issues and you just link general issues with smtp that have no impact on Delta Chat?
SMTP is not secure
Delta Chat sends encrypted messages over it so that’s irrelevant.
SMTP is not efficiency
Your phone can run LLMs, it can send a couple packets. Also this “chattyness” can be seen as an advantage as it is extremely robust and works on any network however inconsistent.
SMTP doesn’t have a way to ensure stuff is delivered
Yeah duh? It’s decentralized. You can’t ensure that the recipient doesn’t take down their server?…
Etc. I feel like I’m wasting my time replying to all these because it seems you didn’t even take the time to read them yourself.
I feel like I’m wasting my time replying to all these because it seems you didn’t even take the time to read them yourself.
I'm here trying to learn about Delta Chat and why you think it's a good app given the drawbacks of the approach they've taken. Over the years there's been an incredible amount of messengers pop up, 90 million from Google alone and none have opted for SMTP. There's surely a reason for that. From what I've learned, mostly thanks to Gemini, because holy fuck the Delta Chat website feels like something from 20 years ago and is purposely vague, the solution that Delta has gone for is just to add more layers. Again, something that the world has repeatedly opted against. I'm trying to understand why it's considered a good idea in this case and why so many teams and startups have decided not to use this methodology until now?
Jesus Christ, being curious shouldn't feel like a chore.
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You cannot make a Signal account without phone number so that’s not true.
you need a phone number to make an account. but you can chat with others without divulging your phone number
