I hesitate to add to the atmosphere of dread, but Meta's increasingly unfettered acceleration of the kinds of messages that precede genocides is so alarming.

Erin Kissane

And—how to say this… Avoiding Meta platforms doesn't confer a get-out-of-atrocities-free card. This is why I'm so focused on the need to build broadly appealing, maximally accessible alternative platforms.

I understand, "It's good if the fediverse stays niche," but that's a solution for a tiny number of people.

Erin Kissane

"People should just think more critically about technology" is not a solution. "Normies just love their evil dopamine and dumb celebs, let them suffer" is not a solution.

"I don't believe people when they say it's unpleasant or confusing because it's not for me" is not a solution.

"But Threads!" is not a solution.

The window for making fedi a robust and substantial part of an alternative pluriverse of networks is not going to be open forever, I don't think.

Erin Kissane

I am hopeful about the changes at Mastodon. I think IFTAS is doing absolutely crucial work with very little support. I've come around on bridging, as wildly imperfect as it is, as a stop-loss and a way of keeping fedi more viable for more people who are willing to accept the (nebulous) trade-offs.

But also I love the federated model and I want it to be a real option for more people in more places, so it's discouraging to keep hitting "eh screw the normies" when the societal risks are so high.

symph0nic

@kissane I don't see there being a "window" so to speak. The structure of the Internet is fundamentally decentralised (despite what you may hear about "Web 3.0" and its claim about it). So long as that structure exists, the fediverse remains viable. Its strategy for palatability, sustainability, and overall "approachability" may need to change, but that ties into a lot of leftist principles.

Renaud Chaput

@kissane We really need to talk someday
(and probably sooner than later)

wet forest moon folklorist

@kissane begging reply fellas to respond directly to the core critique you're making here or pls be quiet and say nothing

people need to reckon with the gravity of analysis like this, and not deflect by riffing off adjacent ideas in the replies

Phil Stevens :tinoflag:

@kissane What's worse is that they have prior art. FB's refusal to moderate was the principal reason that hatred against Rohingya was amplified and led to genocide.

Erin Kissane

I wouldn't have posted this knowing I wouldn't be around to look at replies but I have to get offline now for unexpected reasons, so any responses will be slow/in a few days.

The point was, "Niche alternatives will not prevent societal damage wrought by giant corporate platforms knowingly accelerating the worst things humans do to each other, and alt-network advocates better grapple with that *right now*." The rest is commentary.

Erin Kissane

@phil_stevens A reason. But yes: https://erinkissane.com/meta-in-myanmar-full-series

Mizzi

@kissane I am perplexed by anyone who would think that the fediverse staying niche is a good idea.

k7aay

@kissane Gotta make Pixelfed more easily accessible!

Large Heydon Collider

@kissane I don't follow. Individual instances are niche. The fediverse, by definition, is not. Not that this fact necessarily helps much on its own!

Ben Royce 🇺🇦

@themizzi @kissane

they don't want "the normies"

they fear an #eternalseptember

thing is, since this is federation, anyone worried about that can keep their niche communities separate and never encounter "the normies"

and, like erin said, we want "the normies" here

otherwise they get mindwiped by plutocrat agendas on centralized #socialmedia

to do that we have to make the process of getting into the #fediverse dead simple

dead. simple.

even picking a server is a step too high for many

Daniel Supernault

@benroyce @themizzi @kissane amen. I'm trying to solve this in Pixelfed, making it easier to start with and use.

Ben Royce 🇺🇦

@dansup @themizzi @kissane

Dan is there any possibility you could clone yourself x5 for the sake of the fediverse? 🤭

Nothing but awe Dan for what you're doing!

damon

@[email protected] I personally don’t understand how anything is considered more “ethical” when it’s fine with segregation of normies

Erin Kissane

@heydon Niche as in about a million people and shrinking vs. billions of people. If we want society-level effects, we have to be providing better options for the big groups as well. (Currently Bluesky is getting most of the Meta-leavers, and I wish fedi could offer its real benefits to more of them.)

katzenberger

@kissane

The trouble is that it is precisely those "broadly appealing, maximally accessible alternative platforms" that are required for spreading messages that precede, e.g., genocide.

There is simply no way how one could invite merely potential victims, and keep perpetrators and their enablers (who start the fire by telling people to not be "snowflakes", those who "won't be silenced by the woke", etc.) out.

I get why one would desire that, but the Fediverse of today rather resembles a Third Reich basement where the persecuted are hiding. Planting signs everywhere to show the "way to the nearest shelter for potential victims of the Nazis" does not look like a reasonable idea, to me.

The first who try to hide are the most vulnerable. Only then, the party members who once thought they'd be safe if they obeyed and looked away, realize that they'll be next.

And they don't learn. They don't show solidarity. They're entering the shelter, loudly complaining why the shelter does not offer all the amenities of the flat they were just running out of, in panic.

I believe that the existence of many different house rules is an advantage of the Fediverse, not a disadvantage. IFTAS is walking a very thin line here. Being a community where moderators exchange experiences and consent on what they feel they can consent on: fine. Becoming an outsourced moderation center that ultimately mandates what is ok, on every instance: not fine.

Erin Kissane

@katzenberger I don't do super-long comments so I will point you here for my thoughts on refuge and broad connection: https://www.wrecka.ge/against-the-dark-forest/

"Becoming an outsourced moderation center that ultimately mandates what is ok, on every instance: not fine." This isn't what IFTAS does or has ever done. People project so much onto a tiny org building out the tooling moderators have requested, and although scrutiny is essential, I think it would be helpful to avoid making up scenarios from whole cloth.

katzenberger

@kissane

Thanks, will get back to here after I've read it.