I posted the following on Facebook this morning, and Facebook immediately removed the posting:

William Lindsey :toad:

@InvincibleSugar I think that attempting to put politics over there, as if it's not integral to our lives and as if the choices we make about it don't have radically significant effects on family members, is impossible. LGBTQ family members have tried to tell other family members about this for a very long time now. A lot of us prefer not to be honest about how our choices affect others and about the right others then have to distance and protect themselves from us when our choices are harmful.

William Lindsey :toad:

@sharonecathcart Ah, thanks for explaining. I'm sorry I misunderstood. And sorry that happened. I appreciate your telling me. Others have reported exactlhy the same. Klukkerbots is such a great name for them.

William Lindsey :toad:

@Terypat @Savvyhomestead Thank you for the good wishes. I know that sense that something you may have dreamed may also have happened. I've experienced that, too.

Sugar :verified:

@wdlindsy politics are not integral to our lives. And the choices we make in who we vote can't be boiled down to simple black and white issues. I have friends who supported Kamala, I have friends who supported Trump. I wouldn't be friends with any of them if they were horrible people.

Yeah, there are some people on either side voting for a candidate that represent the most extreme and horrifying example of what a voter could look like, but they don't represent most voters.

William Lindsey :toad:

@InvincibleSugar Politics absolutely are integral to our lives. Ask African Americans who lived for many years with no autonomy, without the right to vote. Ask women who organized and pressed for the right to vote. Ask LGBTQ people whose bedrooms could be invaded by police and who could be arrested on the spot, and who were not for years accorded the right to marry. It would take astonishing privilege to be able to pretend that politics are not integral to our lives.

Sugar :verified:

@wdlindsy I wouldn't be able to ask them because none of them are still alive. You're talking about political issues from many decades ago. That's so disingenuous.

LGBTQ people are not threatened by police coming to arrest them, you're just making things up now. Or do you actually believe that? Is that why you're willing to put politics over family? Because you've been indoctrinated into believing LGBTQ people are actually going to be arrested? Where are you getting that idea from?

Sugar :verified:

@wdlindsy Now... if you want to discuss broader systemic issues, I completely agree there’s still work to do—like fighting gerrymandering, limited polling places in heavily minority areas, or attacks on trans rights (e.g., bathroom bans, gender options for government documents).

But your claims—saying Black people can’t vote at all and LGBTQ people face imminent arrests—are factually inaccurate and misrepresent reality. Let’s focus on real issues without exaggeration, please...

William Lindsey :toad:

@InvincibleSugar

https://files.toad.social/media_attachments/files/113/579/491/871/601/599/original/343ec0a680a88177.png

William Lindsey :toad:

@InvincibleSugar History is not ever over and finished. What has happened historically continues to have important ramifications today. Anyone who imagines that issues of race and gender were not front and center in this election did not pay attention, as Sherillyn Ifill reminded us in a statement only today.

Homosexuality was not decriminalized in the US — from the federal level — until 2003, when the Supreme Court issued its Lawrence v. Texas ruling. You may want to read about that case.

Sugar :verified:

@wdlindsy nothing you said there is wrong, but it's also not how you originally framed your argument.

Your previous claims implied black people cannot vote today, and LGBTQ people are under immediate threat of arrest once Trump becomes president.

This is entirely different than what you're saying now, that the past inequities of our country still impact people in smaller ways today, or that progress with LGBTQ rights is slow and ongoing.

Exaggerating doesn't help anything.

William Lindsey :toad:

@InvincibleSugar I'm sorry you didn't understand my point. I certainly did not say or imply that black people cannot vote today or LGBTQ people are under immediate threat of arrest. I spoke of asking black people or LGBTQ people about what the history of their communities was like when no rights were accorded to those communities, rights only won by political action. Some groups of people may have the luxury of pretending that politics don't matter. Other groups don't.

https://files.toad.social/media_attachments/files/113/579/552/390/517/290/original/333ace846b722d61.jpg

Sugar :verified:

@wdlindsy you said "Ask African Americans who lived for many years with no autonomy, without the right to vote."

I should ask them? Even though the 15th amendment passed in 1870. If you have a 172 year old black person for me to ask I would love to meet them.

"Ask LGBTQ people whose bedrooms could be invaded by police and who could be arrested on the spot"

These are your words. Don't try to claim I didn't understand your point. There are plenty of inequities today without you making shit up.

https://media.baraag.net/media_attachments/files/113/580/329/872/850/341/original/c5b0324058bddaec.png

William Lindsey :toad:

@InvincibleSugar Again, I'm sorry that you are missing what I said. I invited you to ask people in minority communities alive now about what their history has been.

If you don't want to know that history and want to pretend that you and your loved ones can vote to target and harm minority communities and still compel them to love you, please do you.

A lot of us choose to live our lives otherwise and own adult responsibility for our actions.

Sugar :verified:

@wdlindsy except that's not what you said. It's hilarious, how you want to talk about personal responsibility but you won't even take responsibility for your words.

You never said I should talk to minorities about history from multiple generations ago and how that impacts them today. Even now, given the opportunity to clarify you're just doubling down, insisting that I don't understand what you said. You can't admit that you were wrong.

How can anyone take you seriously at this point?

William Lindsey :toad:

@InvincibleSugar When "conversations" reach the level of personal insult in my feed, I bow out of them. I'm doing that now with good wishes to you.