University of Toronto President Gertler delivers speech that’s been needed for months: acknowledges harm of campus antisemitism, says exclusion of anyone (whether Jewish, Israeli or Zionist) is discriminatory, confirms protests must abide by campus cod...
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dragonfrog, hungry wafflereplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris @mgeist
He did not say the word "Palestine" or "Palestinian" once in the whole speech. You can't acknowledge a people's suffering if you don't acknowledge their existence.Acknowledging the existence of Palestine is an absolute no-go zone for these guys. They'll refer to "Gaza", but won't acknowledge Gaza is a region of any particular country.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to dragonfrog last edited by
@dragonfrog @mgeist indeed.
Acknowledgement of the existence of a Palestinian would be acknowledging fault on the part of Israel. -
@dragonfrog @mgeist @chris
It is antisemitic to state the lie that Israel is committing genocide though like you are doing though.Those sort of allegations need strong evidence and to be proven under the rule of law rather than in the court of public opinion.
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@GreenFire @dragonfrog @mgeist @chris
The ICJ found it plausible that Israel’s acts could amount to genocide and issued six provisional measures, ordering Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocidal acts, including preventing and punishing incitement to genocide, ensuring aid and services reach Palestinians under siege in Gaza, and preserving evidence of crimes committed in Gaza.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Kevin Leecaster last edited by
@GreenFire @dragonfrog @mgeist with all due respect, this is nonsense. Israel has systematically wiped out entire population centres, it has used access to food and relief as a weapon, it has, in the words of the UN Secretary General this morning, meted collective punishment on a population of civilians for the military acts of a group.
Accusing Israel of genocide, whether it is on this platform, or as it has been officially accused under International Law by South Africa at The Hague, cannot be waved away as “antisemitism”. It is a serious accusation made by serious people in the face of incredible destruction and loss of life.
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@jerome @GreenFire @dragonfrog @mgeist and Israel has chosen to ignore this and even accuse the ICJ of antisemitism! The word apparently has lost all meaning even to *some* of the people it was meant to protect!
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Kevin Leecasterreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris @dragonfrog @mgeist
If you buy into the Kremlin narrative that their ally South Africa is pushing that's of course up to you. A lot of people turn into their useful idiots sadly.I'm just giving you my perspective on why so many people are being brainwashed into considering the USA to be the Great Satan and to turn from the West and democracies like what the Israelis are trying to do in the Middle East for eighty years despite Moscow trying to undermine its survival there.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Kevin Leecaster last edited by [email protected]
@GreenFire @dragonfrog @mgeist And remember... The Hague was only created *after* the horrors of the Holocaust were revealed to the world after the end of World War II. The International Court of Justice was created in order to try to remind the world that there are consequences, but it cannot itself prevent genocide from happening.
That is on us as a people to recognize and call out. If I see a murder happening on the street, I don't wait until the murderer is proven guilty to accuse him of murder. They are accused, they are arrested, and then they have their time in court. Who will have the courage to arrest Benjamin Netanyahu if we can't even bring ourselves to name the obvious crime we can all see? Or Vladimir Putin? Anyone?
Laws are useless if they are not respected and enforced.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Kevin Leecaster last edited by
@GreenFire @dragonfrog @mgeist As far as I am concerned Bibbi is equivalent to Vlad in his disregard for human life and willingness to commit acts of terror and genocide to achieve his political, white supremacist, colonial goals.
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Kevin Leecasterreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris @dragonfrog @mgeist
Netanyahu is not Israel just like Trump is not America.What is happening in the Middle East right now in relation to what started on Putin's last birthday has all been brought about to help bring Trump back into power though so I speak up about what a terrible thing it is to help the Kremlin, but everyone has to choose which side they're on for sure.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Kevin Leecaster last edited by
@GreenFire @dragonfrog @mgeist And thank goodness Netanyahu is not Israel, the thousands of Israelis protesting his warmongering government proves that.
Just as Putin does not represent the Russians setting fire to buildings and infrastructure in covert opposition to their government's genocidal war.
But referring to “Israel” as in the Government of a country waging war against others is perfectly valid, just as “Russia” wages war against Ukraine.
I know we are all very capable of seeing from context that Israel and Russia are both credibly accused of committing Genocide.
The President of the University of Toronto knows that as well.
And yet he chose not even to mention Palestinians... again, silence is acceptance. He is clearly taking a side, and it's the side that is accused of Genocide.
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Kevin Leecasterreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris @dragonfrog @mgeist
You make a dangerous mistake by not mentioning the war crimes committed by Palestinians imo since that is undermining support for Democrats in the USA by solely condemning Israel imo. -
dragonfrog, hungry wafflereplied to Kevin Leecaster last edited by
@GreenFire @chris @mgeist
That is exactly my point: The people like the president of the U of T who say that when *Israel*, not all the Jews of the world, - let us stipulate - *allegedly* genocidally drop tens of thousands of tonnes of explosives on one of the most densely populated cities on earth, then protesting against that is inherently antisemitic - THEY are the ones saying those acts are inseparable from Jewishness, because protesting them is inseparable from protesting Jewishness. -
Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Kevin Leecaster last edited by [email protected]
@GreenFire @dragonfrog @mgeist I fully acknowledge the crimes of Hamas (as have people like the UN Secretary General). This doesn't change the facts of the genocidal war being waged by Israel on Palestinians that has gone FAR beyond anything we have ever seen before.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to dragonfrog last edited by
@dragonfrog @GreenFire @mgeist well said
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Kevin Leecasterreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris @dragonfrog @mgeist
Just because you call something genocide does not make it so just like when Trump calls climate change a hoax it does not make it so.Instead of worrying about things that are years into the future like war crimes trials, I'm focused on keeping Trump and his cronies from taking over the world's largest economy at this stage of our climate crisis personally.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Kevin Leecaster last edited by
@GreenFire @dragonfrog @mgeist
You come back to this, but you are wrong.
If I see a murder happen, I will call it out as murder.
I see genocide happening, I've read the definitions. I've read the ICJ rulings. I will call it out as genocide.
This is happening *now*. It must be stopped *now*. I will not wait like we did with WWII, or Rwanda. Fuck Trump.