Should there be a single, secular, multi-ethnic state in Israel/Palestine, with equal rights for all?
-
@evan And that overrides the rights of the indigenous people of Palestine?
-
Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
I am also embarrassed and ashamed of this conclusion.
The countries of Europe and North America accept the premise that Jewish people are unsafe in the world without the presence of a Jewish state without any self-reflection on that damning judgment.
Making the US, Canada, and Europe safe for Jews is a challenge that does not undermine the legitimacy of Israel, but definitely improves our own.
-
@thurisaz no.
-
Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
We should also take a much more active participation in a lasting peace in the region. Again, we bear significant responsibility for the need for a Jewish state and the inability of the Israel/Palestine conflict to be resolved as in other parts of the world.
-
@evan So how do you see the rights of the colonized people being realized in a state that isn't "a single, secular, multi-ethnic state"?
The legitimacy of Israel isn't a question related to European anti-semitism. It's related to European settler-colonialism.
-
John Mark :blobcatverified: ☑️replied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan No, a Jewish state is not necessary. I will not concede that point. That propaganda was developed by antisemitic Christians in the aftermath of the protestant reformation. This is why Zionism as a concept is inherently antisemitic.
-
@thurisaz I don't know.
I think the Oslo concept for a two-state solution, with one sub-sovereign state, as untenable long term.
I'd prefer a binational state with guaranteed rights for the different nations enshrined in law, but I don't know if that's sufficient to give the Jewish people the protection they need.
-
@evan one democratic state would be controlled by the larger population, the Palestinians, so I thought that a two-state solution would be more popular.
-
Evan Prodromoureplied to John Mark :blobcatverified: ☑️ last edited by
@johnmark until we have better protection for Jewish people in the USA and Canada, I can't agree. Anti-Semitism is real and an existential danger to Jewish people in the Diaspora. Zionism may be an imperfect solution but it is the one that currently exists.
-
@mattlehrer it's almost a demographic tie right now; about 7m Jewish Israelis and 7m Palestinians in East Jerusalem, Gaza, West Bank and Israel. The right of return for Palestinians in the Diaspora (about 5-15M) might take that out of balance, I agree.
-
Stefan Monnierreplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan Does it really? Is there really a connection between the two? Does the existence of Israel even make Jews safer elsewhere?
-
Evan Prodromoureplied to Stefan Monnier last edited by
@monnier good question! I don't know if there is a way to tell.
-
@evan I don't have an opinion here but reading the couple a dozen replygoy comments was hilarious. Thanks for the chuckle.
-
I aspire to your ability to react to those kind of posts with a chuckle rather than an aneurysm.
-
John Mark :blobcatverified: ☑️replied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan I don't know of any solutions given current conditions. You're right that antisemitism is very real and presents a danger to many. But I struggle with tolerating a system that necessitates the expulsion and systematic oppression of millions of people, especially given the non-jewish origins of said system. I don't see how that serves anyone's interests.
Israel in its current form cannot continue without doubling down on fascist authoritarianism. It will get worse before it gets better.
-
Evan Prodromoureplied to John Mark :blobcatverified: ☑️ last edited by
@johnmark I think we're more in agreement than you realize. Thanks for responding.
-
Evan Prodromoureplied to Bungle ✡️ באנגל last edited by
@bungle @dukepaaron "replygoys" is funny.
Just wondering: how do you know there weren't any Palestinians responding?
-
@dukepaaron you don't have *any* opinion on this topic?
-
@mpjgregoire @jeremy_pm Yes, many of the remaining Palestinian Christians are in the diaspora.
-
@evan Yes, that's what I thought. But also I presume the diaspora would have lower fertility rates than the roughly 3.5 per woman in Palestine, and thus for the Christian proportion to be declining overall.