Something about starter packs that I think gets lost when they're discussed on Mastodon:

Lord Hurkle-Durkle :bc:

Yeah, I've seen the sealioning thing before.

I think it's really disturbing how many people jump to the "he's just sealioning" conclusion.

It tells me that sealioning must be more prevalent than however often I encounter it.

>If you do want to improve, here's something I found immensely helpful as a white guy:
https://sceneonradio.org/seeing-white/

I'll check out that podcast, but I honestly do not need a history lesson, because I have actually dedicated my life to this cause for the past 30 years.

I am firmly on the anti-racist side of things. I'm not sure why everyone keeps assuming that I'm not.

The Nexus of Privacy

It's not a technical issue. In fact there have been several examples here of Black people putting in a lot of effort on something that would make the place better -- for Black people and others. Unfortunately they've generally been greeted with abuse, and haven't gotten any support from the larger platform providers. And, there hasn't been any significant progress on safety and racism issues for the last N years. So what's the incentive?

@mastodonmigration @nullagent @Nelfan @ryanrandall @ErickaSimone

Mastodon Migration

@thenexusofprivacy @nullagent @Nelfan @ryanrandall @ErickaSimone

Again, we come down to these things can be done, but probably not in a way that non-technical users will embrace.

If we want to make people care about 'who owns their data' we kind of need to present a reasonably viable alternative, at least from an onboarding and user interface standpoint.

FallsMom 🟦 🌻

@W6KME @thenexusofprivacy @nullagent @Nelfan @ryanrandall @mastodonmigration @ErickaSimone

I found it simple. I am a non-techie, an English major, over 60.

Maybe people over-think it. I signed up on a server prompted by a rescue dog account on twitter two years ago.

And have lived happily ever after.

Mastodon Migration

@FallsMom @W6KME @thenexusofprivacy @nullagent @Nelfan @ryanrandall @ErickaSimone

Right. Perception and reality are different things and both need to be addressed in both UI software design and product marketing.

Mastodon Migration

@thenexusofprivacy @nullagent @Nelfan @ryanrandall @ErickaSimone

Yes, but does that mean it is futile? The question that kicked this all off today was "How do we get them to build for Mastodon/Activity Pub?". How do we address the issues of the past and present to make the changes necessary to get things going here? Can we be more intentional about supporting black people here? Or is it just too late?

The Nexus of Privacy

I don't think it's too late in general -- if I did, I wouldn't still be here! For Mastodon itself, it won't happen without a fork or a significant change in Mastodon gGmbH's structure and role, so hard to know.

As to how, the general approach is to work with people in a community to figure out key use cases that aren't being addressed elsewhere and put together something with enough value that early adopters will work through the initial challenges and gets it to the point of broader adoption. Bluesky's all-public and fedi has scoped visibility, so that's one area in which there's a lot of space that's open. And there are a lot of interesting things happening here -- see https://privacy.thenexus.today/good-stuff-in-the-fediverses/ -- so there's a lot to leverage.

That said, being more intentional about supporting Black people here and about getting away from the techie elitism are both critical too!

@mastodonmigration @nullagent @Nelfan @ryanrandall @ErickaSimone

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

@GuyDudeman okay, so let me get this straight:

1. you are "firmly on the anti-racist side of things"

2. you ask, repeatedly, what the problem is with the way you are engaging with people in this thread.

3. when you are provided with answers, you balk at them, either dismissing them outright, or saying you "don't need a history lesson"

> I'm not sure why everyone keeps assuming that I'm not.

Truly a mystery.

@thenexusofprivacy @ryanrandall

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

@GuyDudeman and let me clarify one thing:

> people jump to the "he's just sealioning" conclusion.

No. People are calling out a pattern of behavior you demonstrated repeatedly in this thread.

It is sealioning regardless if you're doing this consciously or not.

Just as it is splashing a pedestrian with gutter water regardless whether the car driver did that consciously or not.

You keep asking how you can improve, and people keep telling you: stop sealioning.

@thenexusofprivacy @ryanrandall

Lord Hurkle-Durkle :bc:

@rysiek @thenexusofprivacy @ryanrandall

>You keep asking how you can improve, and people keep telling you: stop sealioning.

So your answer is "shut up and don't ask questions"?

Honestly, people need to figure out how to be polite and have public discussions otherwise nobody will ever understand anyone else.

When people are ostracized for wanting to engage in public discussion, in public discussion forums, then what's the point of the public discussion forum?

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

@GuyDudeman no, my answer is: when multiple people politely tell you that your pattern of behavior is racist, the right thing to do is apologize and do some own research.

Anti-racism is not about making white dudes like us feel comfortable, but about making people who do not look like us not having to deal with racism. Conscious and unconscious.

Your behavior is indistinguishable from conscious racist sealioning. What you do with this information is up to you.

@thenexusofprivacy @ryanrandall

Yakyu Night Owl

@rysiek If @GuyDudeman is serious about coming correct, here is some vital reading material. If he is really interested in making a change in himself, he will make the effort.

https://www.antiracistguide.org

@thenexusofprivacy @ryanrandall

William Pietri

@GuyDudeman

This bit is ridiculous:

> Block me all you want. But I will never learn anything if that's what you do.

Why do you think you're helpless? Why do you think you're not responsible for educating yourself?

This stuff has all been written about many, many times. Can you name 5 relevant books you've already read to get background? And if not, why do you think you're entitled to free, personalized instruction before you've put in any work?

Jon

Thanks, I hadn't seen that before! I'll check it out and add it to https://privacy.thenexus.today/start-making-the-fediverse-less-toxic/

@[email protected]

Lord Hurkle-Durkle :bc:

@williampietri Because it’s easier to just talk to people than to read theory. Why can’t people just talk to each other anymore?

William Pietri

@GuyDudeman It may be easier for you. It's not easier for the people you're insisting educate you. Caring more about your feelings than the people harmed by racism is an important part of racism's operation.

W6KME

@mastodonmigration @thenexusofprivacy @nullagent @Nelfan @ryanrandall @ErickaSimone I've brought a few dozen people in so far, a few hams but mostly "regular"people, and not one single person had trouble. So many of these replies are projecting the myth onto people, and THAT is something a new user senses.

The Nexus of Privacy

It's great that you've brought so many people here -- and mastodon.radio seems like the kind of instance that''s fedi at its best, so kudos to you and everybody else involved in it.

That said, your experience isn't typical. 85-90% of the people who sign up don't stay. It's worth reading https://erinkissane.com/mastodon-is-easy-and-fun-except-when-it-isnt to get an idea of the reasons why many people don't stay.

For the people you brought here, you were probably able to suggest a good instance; that's an advantage that random people signing up don't have. And they were starting out by following at least one person they knew (possibly more than one if they knew each other).

And I don't know how many of the people you brought here were Black, Indigenous, or Muslim but unless the answer is "a lot of them" then you're projecting white experiences to very different situations.

So it would be great if everybody had similar experiences to the people you brought here, but that's not currently the case.

@W6KME @mastodonmigration @nullagent @Nelfan @ryanrandall @ErickaSimone

W6KME

@thenexusofprivacy @mastodonmigration @nullagent @Nelfan @ryanrandall @ErickaSimone

My point is not that it's easy...nor is it that it is easy for all people.

My point is that those people going on and on that it's so hard no one can do it are contributing to the difficulty. It's up to those people to decide whether they want to promote what the fediverse can do or to tell potential newcomers that it's just so hard it will never work.

That's ALL I have said. Please don't add to it.

Lord Hurkle-Durkle :bc:

@williampietri How is anyone ever to learn anything from anyone if the student is not allowed to ask questions even about the directions to the library??