"Tonight, on the 104th anniversary of the ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment, delegates are gathered in Chicago, Illinois, for the Democratic National Convention, where they will celebrate Harris’s nomination for the presidency.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to M.S. Bellows last edited by
@msbellows @lolonurse Thanks for explaining your point more thoroughly. It's thoughtful, and I generally agree. I also think that at some point, Kamala Harris has to make her position about these matters clear, and I'd hope that we'll see at least some daylight between her position and the course Biden has followed up to now.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to lolonurse last edited by
@lolonurse I can understand how a personal connection would give anyone a very personal optic on what seem to be abstract issues to a lot of us from a distance — and I definitely respect that. As someone looking on at a distance, I have to say that one of my guiding moral compasses has been the witness and insight of many people of strong Jewish faith, who are willing to stand up and speak out against oppression.
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Charles Heroldreplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy @msbellows @lolonurse She may be hoping she can avoid making that position clear until after the election. Any definite position is more likely to lose her votes from one side than win her votes from the other. And Gaza is not, according to polls, at the top of most voters' concerns, so I don't see much upside in taking a strong position until she has the power to change our policy.
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lolonursereplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy @msbellows
I think about this a lot. She is in a delicate position. She is still vice president, under & supporting the president.
If her ideas & plans are different, it could be not just precarious but dangerous to say so, because Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Jordan, Egypt, & TFG! - all listening & gauging how to take advantage of any rift. This is literally a tightrope walk. I do not fault her for being circumspect (especially w/current 'peace' talks under way.) -
lolonursereplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy
Many of us are secular Jews, but our Judaism is thousands of years of history, culture, traditions, laws & morés, & stories - the foundations for 2 younger offshoots! We are at least 2,000 years older than Christianity, & Jesus was Jewish. We are at least 2,400 years older than Islam, & Mohammed was a Hanif, directly descended from Abraham. So their roots are our roots. We're siblings, or at least cousins. So these fights are familial, & someone needs to point that out! -
William Lindsey :toad:replied to lolonurse last edited by
@lolonurse I think most of engage our religious traditions in diverse ways, and it makes no sense — and is not fair — to separate those drawing on religious heritages into the "observant" or "practicing" and the rest. In both cases, the reliigious tradition informs, shapes, molds moral perspectives. And I continue to think that this role of religion deserves respect among those on the left who seem to feel entitled to insult and stereotype people of faith who stand alongside them.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to lolonurse last edited by
@lolonurse @msbellows It's very definitely a tightrope walk, and that tightrope has been set in place by white Christian nationalists in the US whose very eccentric and peculiar reading of the bible leads them to see Israel in strange apocalyptic ways. The big irony is, though those folks are some of the most antisemitic imaginable, a portion of the US Jewish community has chosen to side with them because no matter what Israel does, they approve — and they hate the Islamic peoples.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to Charles Herold last edited by
@cherold @msbellows @lolonurse Yes, I suspect that she's being strategic in avoiding making strong direct statements now, which would lock her into positions she may want to alter as president, and also be used by the media to hound her. It's not an easy place to be in. And I am willing to give her room for that strategic positioning, with Donald Trump as the alternative. Anyone who imagines he'll be "better" on Gaza is not living in the real world.
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lolonursereplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy
Funny that you happened to say this now, just as I was noticing, all during the DNC last night, that almost every single speaker, in some form or another, thanked God, or said may God be with us, or God bless America, etc. It made me think the GOP must be furious that most Democrats are people of faith, in many forms. -
lolonursereplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy @msbellows
Yes, there is definitely a very troubling segment of American Jewry who are just as crazed as the MAGAts and White Nationalists, and the rest of the very disturbed extremists. I just turned 74, and grew up with very liberal Egyptian and Iranian Jewish friends & neighbors. And various Muslims. It would never have occurred to me that there was any "difference", except holidays. -
lolonursereplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy @cherold @msbellows
I don't believe he is capable of thinking in diplomatic, global or "political" terms. Everything revolves around him, his wants & needs, and who likes/"respects" him. He's a tyrannical toddler. He has always been so, although in NY, he wasn't tolerated very much. I LOVE how Walz captured him as a very small man. -
William Lindsey :toad:replied to lolonurse last edited by
@lolonurse @msbellows My Jewish neighbors and friends fit your experience of Judaism, and I learn so much from them. I should also add — above and beyond discussions of Judaism, but touching on the role of religion and religious people in public discourse — I think the testimony of people who have distanced themselves from religious traditions and God-talk for very good reasons is very valuable, too, and deserves a strong place in public discourse.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to lolonurse last edited by
@lolonurse Yes, I think it's really important for signals to be given to Republicans that they do not own God, the bible, religion, people of faith — that there are different ways to appropriate religious symbols than the way they want to impose on all of us, and that many Democrats stand in those "different ways." This is very important for the African-American community, who deserve so much credit for fighting for American democracy.
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lolonursereplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy @msbellows
I love talking religion, philosophy, history... I am far from knowledgeable, but I enjoy talking to people much smarter & more schooled in these matters than I am. My late husband (Methodist) could keep me rapt for hours, as can my best friend, who grew up calling Jerry Falwell Uncle Jerry, bc his grandfather (also a minister) & Falwell were best friends. He was a philosophy major, & we talk theoretical stuff for hours. -
William Lindsey :toad:replied to lolonurse last edited by
@lolonurse @msbellows I enjoy talking about those topics, too, with a wide range of people. The most interesting and insightful often don't have letters after their names! Interesting that your best friend has a grandfather who knew Falwell, too.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to lolonurse last edited by
@lolonurse @cherold @msbellows I agree. His point of reference is always firmly himself, and his information base is so dangerously low that he's incapable of thinking in broader terms.
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lolonursereplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy @msbellows
Not only that, but Grand-dad & Uncle Jerry insisted he go to Liberty College. (They were sorry! Jon didn't behave like a choir boy, and ultimately was invited to drop out.)
Then he went to a real school. -
William Lindsey :toad:replied to lolonurse last edited by
@lolonurse @msbellows I think he dodged a bullet! I well remember my high-school guidance counselor encouraging me to go to the Southern Baptist college in Arkansas at which Mike Huckabee and his daughter Sarah were "educated." At the time I was graduating from high school, my uncle was academic v-p there and his wife taught English there. I thank my lucky stars that I turned a deaf ear to that suggestion from my guidance counselor!
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lolonursereplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy
I agree, but almost all members of Congress have their fingers in their ears when anyone tries to talk rationally & diplomatically about Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Gaza, Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, etc etc... Israelis absolutely have the right to justice for the horror of the massacre of totally innocent people. But boy did Netanyahu go way overboard. I know many countries, especially US, are unwilling to officially sanction Israel, but Netanyahu is out of control. -
lolonursereplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy @msbellows
I hear you! The Huckabees are really not a good advertisement for their Alma Mater!