But "socialism" is a scary word

[remembertheapollo_@lemmy.world]

The only real problem I have with capitalism is the people that refuse to consider any other way of operating, or immediately make it a binary choice between capitalism and “scary” communism.

Economic systems don’t need to be corralled into boxes and never be allowed cross lines. The people forcing that take are the ones profiting from the status quo, by power and/or wealth.

Any of the systems can be combined, the problem is fight against greed that makes people bend the system to funnel power money to a specific group. Whether it be the dictator and his cronies or a bunch of oligarchs. If this cannot be prevented, then no system will work without eventually crushing the average person.

[alteon@lemmy.world]

Exactly. Greed and self-interest are not eliminated by changing economic systems. They wil justl manifest differently (for example, the nomenklatura in the USSR).

[aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com]

Socialism invariably fails and ends ups corrupted into some shithole authoritarianism decorated with leftie-sounding slogans. It is however meant to do the greatest good for the greatest number, it's just that in practice in the real world it's crap at it so it doesn't work because of human nature.

Capitalism doesn't even try to do the greatest good for the greatest number - it's quite literally The Sociopath's Credo: only care about what's best for yourself.

Ultimately they both fail at making most people's lives better, but Capitalism doesn't even try.

The best we've achieved has been Capitalism narrowly applied to just Trade and overseen by some other separate political theory that actually tries in some way to go towards the greatest good for the greatest number, such as Social Democracy, but as we've been seeing right now in realtime, with enough time Capitalism ultimately grounds down such bounds and oversight and corrupts everything.

[aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com]

"It's either fully privatised Healthcare or it's Stalinism"

[semjaza@lemmynsfw.com]

Does Kerala (though only a state and receives national funds) or Allendé's Chile (Overthrown by US supported military coup after a couple of years) count, or do they not for the reasons in brackets or others?

[semjaza@lemmynsfw.com]

We can at least agree that it was a dictatorship under Stalin, right?

[explodicle@sh.itjust.works]

Capitalism is private control over the factors of production. So you can for example have a socialist society in which the factors of production are owned by the community, but there's still markets and commerce.

[explodicle@sh.itjust.works]

Was it not improved by upgrading from Feudalism to Capitalism?

[explodicle@sh.itjust.works]

We have no choice but to compare imperfect systems and pick something.

[explodicle@sh.itjust.works]

Raises below inflation

[gravityowl@lemm.ee]

I have definitely read enough to not write something as incoherent as

No....not everyone hates capitalism. Everyone hates uncontrolled capitalism

and just proving the OP's post right.

I think you need to read more of the theory.

I truly could not care less about the opinion of someone like you who is defending capitalism with such passion in these comments

[intensely_human@lemm.ee]

Leading to lack of material resources?

Here’s some socialists feeling the effects of centrally-controlled economic distributuon:

[intensely_human@lemm.ee]

There’s nothing capitalist about American healthcare. If we had a free market I’d be able to buy my antidepressants ($15/mo) without seeing a doctor ($120).

[dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world]

At first, yes. To make that shift you have to throw the aristocracy, and perhaps a monarchy here or there, into the trash and divvy up the spoils. Over time, the new system can (and some say will inevitably) revert. Once you have enough wealth concentration in the hands of a few, you essentially re-create an aristocracy and the feudal system that goes with it.

It can also be argued that a feudal system is capitalist to begin with. Land and laborers to work it, used to be the key deciding factor in wealth and therefore, power. Wars are where you steal land from others, assuming control of the people that live on it, thereby securing more wealth and power. The industrial revolution saw a gradual shift towards energy production and consumption as a defining factor. So still somewhat land based, but with very different constraints and far less dependence on who lives on it. Now, in the late information age, access to energy and data are emerging as the main deciding factors. But it's also not hard to imagine players that have the most access to energy and data as feudal lords, provided they can influence politics and people's lives in the same way a feudal system can (just without borders). And all of that is top-to-bottom running within a capitalist framework.

Did we improve things? Well, moving towards a central government that supports an actual justice system that isn't prey to your employer or landlord's whims (feudal lord) is a huge win. For instance in the UK, that happened a long time ago. In practice, I think that is still mostly true, but there are some lingering artifacts and maybe even some creep backwards. Consider de-facto class systems, institutionalized bigotry, and racism. On balance, I'd say yes, but I can't say with certainty that it's an absolute win.

[intensely_human@lemm.ee]

By “crippling” here you mean unable to participate in the market. That’s the thing that’s crippled when debt affects a person’s life.

A socialist had no access to the market anyway. They’re born into that crippled state.

[explodicle@sh.itjust.works]

"It's socialism when the goverment does things"

[explodicle@sh.itjust.works]

It sounds like you're describing a free market, not capitalism.

[finitebanjo@lemmy.world]

You know there is a lot of great points in this comment, some of which I will now argue against:

You should read the theory, clearly you haven't read enough theory.

[realitista@lemm.ee]

Nepal: Installed by force in the armed uprising against Rana rule in 1951

India: Neverseized the means of production (or really got very powerful IMO)

San Marino: Attemped a coup and never seized the means of production.

[forensic_potato@lemmy.world]

"Nuance is for Communists!!" /s