People focus on Hitler and Nazi leaders and the atrocious lethal lies they told to justify the mass murder of Jews.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to lolonurse last edited by
@lolonurse It is, for sure. The Milgram experiment showed us decisively just how willing a shocking percentage of us are to inflict pain on someone else at the behest of an authority figure.
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Susan60replied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy
I’m a history teacher, & while I find history fascinating, I think our ability to learn from it is very limited. -
William Lindsey :toad:replied to Susan60 last edited by
@Susan60 I agree, and I'd say that's particularly the case for Americans, who have a shallow, uninformed sense of history, many of us.
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@lawyersgunsnmoney @lolonurse @wdlindsy
The D-Day landings succeeded in part because of the French Resistance.
They risked their lives throughout WW2 to resist the Nazis.
Spies, Saboteurs And D-Day
Spies, Saboteurs And D-Day. Learn more about the resistance groups that helped
Imperial War Museums (www.iwm.org.uk)
The French Resistance Took Many Forms During WWII
After the fall of Paris in 1940, French Gen. Charles de Gaulle called for resistance to the Nazis. From military sabotage to civilian clandestine activities, the French answered and resisted mightily.
HowStuffWorks (history.howstuffworks.com)
Like many nations, the ideology of fascism exposed deep rifts in national identity. Bigotry vs pluralism. Rich vs poor. Liberty vs authority.
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@Npars01 @lawyersgunsnmoney @wdlindsy
Yes, but France has a very long history of antisemitism itself. My own family lived in the very eastern part of France that, centuries ago, went back & forth between France & Germany (before Germany was unified), then they fled to Westphalia about 700 years ago, during one of France's pogroms, & lived in Westphalia until Hitler. -
Susan60replied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
Sadly, that’s the impression I get.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to Susan60 last edited by
@Susan60 Same for me. My area of concentration in my Ph.D. work was history, so that field has long interested me, and my work in it convinces me more and more that many Americans just have little interest in history or much of a clue about it.
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@lolonurse @Npars01 @wdlindsy France also tried to surpass the Nazis in how many Jews from their own country they could put on trains and ship to their deaths. The historical research on this was suppressed until the early 1980s. DeGaulle maintained that fiction of freedom fighters while the Vichy dispatched thousands to the gas chambers, with nary a thought from the population
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@lawyersgunsnmoney @lolonurse @wdlindsy
The Vél d'Hiv Roundup was infamous. Over 13,000 men, women, and children sent to their doom by their fellow citizens.
The Vel d'Hiv Roundup through the eyes of legendary French cartoonist Cabu
On the 80th anniversary of the deportation of 13,000 French Jews, an exhibition at the Holocaust museum in Paris shows drawings the cartoonist made in 1967 for a groundbreaking book on the subject.
Le Monde.fr (www.lemonde.fr)
Letters from Drancy
Memorials for the 60th anniversary of the first mass round-up of French Jews in 1942 include the publication of a book of 129 victim testimonials, reports Jon Henley.
the Guardian (www.theguardian.com)
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Susan60replied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
Mine, in Australia, was modern feminist history, including units on sexuality & “deviance”, or rather, the treatment of those who don’t “fit”. Also a unit on religion, & units on American history & politics.
What gets me is the professed patriotism of Americans, alongside their ignorance. How can anyone think that their country is “great”, when they know so little? Either about their own country &/or anywhere else?
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to Susan60 last edited by
@Susan60 I think the professed patriotism of many Americans positively demands historical ignorance. It's impossible to sustain the myth of American innocence if you know much history at all. This is why so many of those on the political right and even the center want to shut down teaching of real history in our schools. Better to tailor what we say about our history in history books to those wanting to sustain the myths.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to Nicole Parsons last edited by
@Npars01 @lawyersgunsnmoney @lolonurse Thank you. "Sent to their doom by their fellow citizens" is such a chilling statement, and it happened over and over during those years, in many places.
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@wdlindsy @Npars01 @lolonurse And this is explicitly the MAGA Trump Vance Heritage Foundation playbook. I’ve said for a long time that we are re-living the 1930s, which is ghastly
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Susan60replied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
It’s a very sad state of affairs. I thought the opening scene of The Newsroom summed it up well.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to Susan60 last edited by
@Susan60 I hadn't thought of that good movie for a long time. Thanks for bringing it back to mind.
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@lawyersgunsnmoney @Npars01 @lolonurse Yes, to me the parallels seem so clear and so stark that I'm astonished many people want to pretend they're not there.
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Burnt Veggiesreplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy @lawyersgunsnmoney @Npars01 @lolonurse It is quite astonishing to see the support for TFG, even before everyone found out about Project 2025.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to Burnt Veggies last edited by
@Burnt_Veggies @lawyersgunsnmoney @Npars01 @lolonurse Yes. I think the unfortunate reality this period has forced many of us to see is that a significant proportion of Americans — studies show this over 40% of the population — are strongly inclined to authoritarianism. Years of Republican attacks on public education coupled with toxic religion and deep racism have had lamentable effects on how many Americans view the world and their fellow citizens.
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Burnt Veggiesreplied to William Lindsey :toad: last edited by
@wdlindsy @lawyersgunsnmoney @Npars01 @lolonurse Well summed. Teri Kanefield used to say it was about 30 percent of any population will lean authoritarian. That seems to ring true.
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William Lindsey :toad:replied to Burnt Veggies last edited by
@Burnt_Veggies @lawyersgunsnmoney @Npars01 @lolonurse That's interesting information. I hadn't known Teri Kanefield had said this. It fits with recent PRRI findings:
Survey: Four in Ten Americans Are Susceptible to Authoritarianism, But Most Still Reject Political Violence | PRRI
In the wake of the violent insurrection at the U.S. Capitol Building in 2021 and as the Project 2025 blueprint looms over the 2024 election, a new PRRI survey of more than 5,000 Americans takes a closer look at Americans’ support for authoritarianism by revisiting long-established measures of authoritarianism and their relationships to partisanship and religion.
PRRI | At the intersection of religion, values, and public life. (www.prri.org)