stop doing activitypub, facts and logic were not meant to have side effects, they have played us for absolute fools .png
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@trwnh I see. Sounds reasonable (and doable).
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infinite love ⴳreplied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
@dmitri like, look at Create Note. if i want that to just be a notification, i'm going to be very upset when someone takes that as a command to Create an identical Note in their database.
Taking it one step further: if Nextcloud generated a Create Document, and sent it as a notification, then some other system saw that as a command to Create the same Document... see how messy it gets?
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infinite love ⴳreplied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
@dmitri throw in some state desync (blocks, failed deliveries, silent actions, etc.) and you're going to have some real "fun" dealing with that mess.
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smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)replied to Dmitri | 🇺🇦 last edited by
When you mention distributed event logs, then to me that implies event-driven architecture (EDA). You will have some message-based protocol.
An event is "something that happened" triggered by my business logic. Possibly triggering side-effects elsewhere.
Not reasonable, in an #EDA at least, is that an event emitter knows anything at all about who are its consumers. Sending commands is the opposite of emitting events / sending event notifications (msgs).
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infinite love ⴳreplied to smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊) last edited by
@smallcircles @dmitri this is part of it but the part i’m concerned about is knowing whether any given actor participates in this kind of system at all, *before* i accept or reject the follow. maybe i consent to my activity being shown as a notification message in someone’s inbox, but not to having it processed or persisted in the state machine of some distributed network.
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smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)replied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
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infinite love ⴳreplied to smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊) last edited by
@smallcircles @dmitri step 1 would be actually defining such a protocol. step 2 would be to declare that you are following that protocol.
one thing i’m kind of interested in is the ability to establish a communication channel directly between clients. presumably then i could be picky about which clients i connect to. xmpp lets you do this, and you can address individual clients instead of an entire account. i imagine this would be necessary for e2ee work as well?
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smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)replied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
Now that you mention #XMPP.. at the time that https://openengiadina.net dropped #ActivityPub support for XMPP I was tempted to follow along. So many things are better documented in that open standard and the subsequent XEP's.
Yet also both XMPP and #Matrix are first and foremost instant messaging / chat protocols, and to me using them to build other abstractions on top of felt forced, plus being among the first and only ones to do so.
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infinite love ⴳreplied to smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊) last edited by
@smallcircles @dmitri not entirely im/chat, because xmpp stanzas can carry anything and matrix events were designed to be a state synchronization protocol. it’s just a particularity of those ecosystems that the majority of clients are messengers. xmpp though treats messaging as part of its “core” functionality (along with presence and information queries)
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infinite love ⴳreplied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
@smallcircles @dmitri you can use xmpp for sending pretty much whatever you want over bidirectional channels or streams. kind of like how in http land there are server-sent events. or websockets.
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infinite love ⴳreplied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
@smallcircles @dmitri honestly a lot of the time i think about how this stuff is already “done” in xmpp land and i wonder why we’re reinventing it poorly and in json
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infinite love ⴳreplied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
@smallcircles @dmitri do people really hate xml that much? it really seems like it
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smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)replied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
Yes, that is true. At the time I was looking into that, it struck me that no one was doing that however.
With Matrix people were doing additional stuff. Yet it felt weird to me, as the message format literally contains "room" properties to build on.
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infinite love ⴳreplied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
@smallcircles @dmitri i’ve legit thought before about just taking xmpp semantics and porting them 1:1 to activitypub
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smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)replied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
Mentioned XML demise recently: https://social.coop/@smallcircles/113151730120285857
I don't mind to use it. Everything worked fine for me, except some edge cases (where someone shoved Rube Goldberg enterprise service bus spaghetti architecture on our plate).
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smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)replied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by
That is cool thoughts. It is along similar lines of https://berjon.com/ap-at
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@trwnh @dmitri https://w3c-ccg.github.io/zcap-spec/#invocation
notification : capability :: command : invocation
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Aslak Raanesreplied to infinite love ⴳ last edited by [email protected]
@trwnh @smallcircles @dmitri Why do you all hate MIME, as in the message format, and the internet message format (rfc822 with updates) so much?