It's 2024, the web platform now includes a full component system, CSS we only dreamed of 10 years ago, deferred module loading is now a platform feature, and a fuller JS standard library than it ever has...even in Safari.
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@slightlyoff Is there a table that shows the baseline size of the different frameworks? That basically becomes the absolute floor of any js budgets you wanna create.
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@polotek @slightlyoff I think this number might be misleading, tbh. The "baseline size" of React is fairly small (just react and react-dom), but because the react philosophy is to just do everything in JS, things are going to grow a LOT faster than with, e.g. minimal web components, even if you use one of the heavier wc libraries.
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@zkat @slightlyoff I'm trying not to have a bad reaction to this. You and I agree on the problem in front of us. I just asked a question about a number.
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@slightlyoff @zkat what about Angular? (yes I could look this stuff up myself. Sorry for being lazy)
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@slightlyoff I've been trying to go back to some really basic questions. What does react + reactdom actually do for us? Does it still solve a problem we actually have? I'm still interested in what a good core set of features would look like. And how big that would be as a floor.
https://social.polotek.net/@polotek/112622175768244317 -
@polotek @slightlyoff Looks like somewhere around 60kb
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Louis Ingenthronreplied to Marco Rogers last edited by
> What does react + reactdom actually do for us? Does it still solve a problem we actually have?
It makes it easier for developers to implement features that the marketing department demands.
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@polotek @slightlyoff Theres also EmberJS at ~140kb gzipped.
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@polotek @slightlyoff sorry I get what you’re saying now. I just also wish there was an easier way to talk about how 45kb becomes 2mb, but 6kb of a wc library doesn’t. Or rather than talk, to clearly demonstrate. Because someone might shrug off 45kb without realizing the rest of the mess they’re getting into
But I guess that’s what all these conversations we’re having are about, and what Alex’s work has been.
As far as the number, it seems like Alex got it otherwise I would’ve gotten it for you
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@konnorrogers @slightlyoff I'm sure there are people who still use Ember. But also, who the hell is starting a new project with Ember today?
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@polotek @slightlyoff bundlephobia says 62kb min+zip
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@zkat @slightlyoff we're having the same conversation Kat. Honestly I'm trying to get to exactly where you're describing. I'm just realizing that I don't think we can jump ahead. I think we have to start with the basics and start meeting people where they are.
I'm sorry I had a poor reaction. I know you're always trying to be helpful.
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Alex Russellreplied to Louis Ingenthron last edited by
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Zach Leatherman :11ty:replied to Marco Rogers last edited by
@polotek @slightlyoff I used to regularly measure this for “meta” frameworks but haven’t updated it since last year https://www.zachleat.com/web/site-generator-review/#client-javascript-baseline
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@zkat @slightlyoff oh this is awesome. Thanks!
https://bundlephobia.com/ -
Louis Ingenthronreplied to Alex Russell last edited by
@slightlyoff @polotek Oh, yeah, I was referring to JS frameworks in general.
Why React specifically just seems to be "momentum". Same with git, which I think is terrible software, but I had to learn it because "it's just what people use these days".
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@slightlyoff I just love this thread!
(although why preact not solid )
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@polotek @slightlyoff we're cool nw
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@polotek @slightlyoff literally just now Alex was telling me about meeting people where they are and that's... probably the best step indeed even when it's just reeeeally frustrating after you've done some of the work yourself but I guess it's easy sometimes to lose empathy for how hard it was to pull myself out of the hole of those defaults, too /shrug (as someone who also used to assume React was a good enough default)