It's 2024, the web platform now includes a full component system, CSS we only dreamed of 10 years ago, deferred module loading is now a platform feature, and a fuller JS standard library than it ever has...even in Safari.
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@zkat Sorry, yes. Will edit.
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@slightlyoff Is there a table that shows the baseline size of the different frameworks? That basically becomes the absolute floor of any js budgets you wanna create.
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@polotek @slightlyoff I think this number might be misleading, tbh. The "baseline size" of React is fairly small (just react and react-dom), but because the react philosophy is to just do everything in JS, things are going to grow a LOT faster than with, e.g. minimal web components, even if you use one of the heavier wc libraries.
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@zkat @slightlyoff I'm trying not to have a bad reaction to this. You and I agree on the problem in front of us. I just asked a question about a number.
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@slightlyoff @zkat what about Angular? (yes I could look this stuff up myself. Sorry for being lazy)
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@slightlyoff I've been trying to go back to some really basic questions. What does react + reactdom actually do for us? Does it still solve a problem we actually have? I'm still interested in what a good core set of features would look like. And how big that would be as a floor.
https://social.polotek.net/@polotek/112622175768244317 -
@polotek @slightlyoff Looks like somewhere around 60kb
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Louis Ingenthronreplied to Marco Rogers last edited by
> What does react + reactdom actually do for us? Does it still solve a problem we actually have?
It makes it easier for developers to implement features that the marketing department demands.
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@polotek @slightlyoff Theres also EmberJS at ~140kb gzipped.
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@polotek @slightlyoff sorry I get what you’re saying now. I just also wish there was an easier way to talk about how 45kb becomes 2mb, but 6kb of a wc library doesn’t. Or rather than talk, to clearly demonstrate. Because someone might shrug off 45kb without realizing the rest of the mess they’re getting into
But I guess that’s what all these conversations we’re having are about, and what Alex’s work has been.
As far as the number, it seems like Alex got it otherwise I would’ve gotten it for you
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@konnorrogers @slightlyoff I'm sure there are people who still use Ember. But also, who the hell is starting a new project with Ember today?
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@polotek @slightlyoff bundlephobia says 62kb min+zip
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@zkat @slightlyoff we're having the same conversation Kat. Honestly I'm trying to get to exactly where you're describing. I'm just realizing that I don't think we can jump ahead. I think we have to start with the basics and start meeting people where they are.
I'm sorry I had a poor reaction. I know you're always trying to be helpful.
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Alex Russellreplied to Louis Ingenthron last edited by
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Zach Leatherman :11ty:replied to Marco Rogers last edited by
@polotek @slightlyoff I used to regularly measure this for “meta” frameworks but haven’t updated it since last year https://www.zachleat.com/web/site-generator-review/#client-javascript-baseline
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@zkat @slightlyoff oh this is awesome. Thanks!
https://bundlephobia.com/ -
Louis Ingenthronreplied to Alex Russell last edited by
@slightlyoff @polotek Oh, yeah, I was referring to JS frameworks in general.
Why React specifically just seems to be "momentum". Same with git, which I think is terrible software, but I had to learn it because "it's just what people use these days".
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@slightlyoff I just love this thread!
(although why preact not solid )
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@polotek @slightlyoff we're cool nw