#ActuallyAutistic folk: do you guys ever get accused of being defensive when you’re actually just trying to clarify or even understand the other persons POV? Idk, I made a thread about something the other day, explained myself badly and when I tried to...
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#ActuallyAutistic folk: do you guys ever get accused of being defensive when you’re actually just trying to clarify or even understand the other persons POV? Idk, I made a thread about something the other day, explained myself badly and when I tried to clarify, I think people saw it as me being defensive vs me just trying to clarify?
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Dipolereplied to Jessie (they/she) 🍓 🏳️⚧️ 🍉 last edited by
@QueerMatters What does "being defensive" even mean? "defense" is a concept that only makes sense as a response to an attack. It doesn't make sense for them to view your response as defensive unless they view their own actions as attacking, and if that's how they view theirselves, *why on earth* would they expect any response besides a "defensive" one?
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Jessie (they/she) 🍓 🏳️⚧️ 🍉replied to Dipole last edited by
@dipolecat DAMN I hadn’t thought of it like that, holy fuck!!!
Like it’s shit like this that makes me realise *why* I obsess over the details that I put into my messages or how I talk. Because I don’t want to be misunderstood, or then be scalded for correcting myself later on.
That being said, the irony of it is that I sometimes end up being scalded *because* I’ve included so much detail in a way that’s not very coherent.
Sometimes I wish I didn’t have to talk with anyone
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Dipolereplied to Jessie (they/she) 🍓 🏳️⚧️ 🍉 last edited by
@QueerMatters I think the intended meaning of "being defensive" is "unwilling to accept that they're wrong". I think that's a very poor expression for that meaning, and I primarily see it used by people who take for granted that they're right and that the other person is thus wrong -- despite rarely even providing a decent argument in favor of their stance.
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@dipolecat @QueerMatters Non-autistic person here (just very neurodivergent). This topic in general is kinda interesting to me. Feel free to completely ignore my attempt at analysis here.
From what I understand of how neurotypicals engage discussions is not as a form of cooperatively exchanging knowledge and opinions based on them (which can be explained in detail), but as some kind of social arena where knowledge and the wisdom you draw from it are sort of secondary.
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Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@dipolecat @QueerMatters The endgoal there ain't to find the best answer or share different perspectives, but to convince others of your belief; at least for them. So if they shifted away from exchanging knowledge & wisdom and want to convince you, however you're still talking about your perspective or factual details… depending on their character they might call that "defensive". It might even be wrongly called a weakness, given they're looking for ways to convince you while you're potentially
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Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@dipolecat @QueerMatters telling more about yourself (sth. they could use as "attack vector" to make you or people around you doubt your belief). Meanwhile the neurotypical person will come up with less and less factual arguments (but might become angry at you for not being "normal").
An actually autistic friend once asked me if neurotypicals discussing anything non-scientifically is more or less a contest of subliminal manipulation. I think that's somewhat correct, to a certain degree.
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Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@dipolecat @QueerMatters Sorry for the wall of text… :thisisfine:
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@Natanox @dipolecat @QueerMatters This is also my jam as a neurotypical. It's not that all people are viewing all discussions as a team sport, but that online it's so often people aren't willing to have a discussion that guards are up and you don't get the benefit of the doubt.
Personalizing is actually one of the most effective ways to bring someone around. It can diffuse the tension and make it more like talking to someone in person.
It's very hard online though. You need to come in soft.
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@ellesaurus Don't think @dipolecat @QueerMatters were necessarily talking about online discourse though. Even though you're right, it's even worse here.
My main point I tried to convey though was how I believe neurotypicals "swing" in what feels natural and/or important in a discussion, and how that very much differs from the way autistic people experience it. Obviously there are a tons of other factors as well like culture, education etc. -
Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@ellesaurus @dipolecat @QueerMatters Just wish there was waaay more education that covers seld-awareness, social stuff etc. so less people would end up being dicks to neurodivergent kids as parents or relatives… or to themselves. :blobpats: